Rocor-MP Synod re the 2 Anniversaries 1917-2017

DIscussion and News concerning Orthodox Churches in communion with those who have fallen into the heresies of Ecumenism, Renovationism, Sergianism, and Modernism, or those Traditional Orthodox Churches who are now involved with Name-Worshiping, or vagante jurisdictions. All Forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.


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Barbara
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Re: Rocor-MP Synod re the 2 Anniversaries 1917-2017

Post by Barbara »

You meant to say, Maria, that the demeanor of those clergy had a very negative impact ON you ! Just to clarify for any readers.

Well, was Bp Alexander [Mileant] a conservative in his view of the MP ? That is, anti-union and not recognizing the validity of the MP, considering it rather a Stalin-created bureaucracy ?

And that is shocking about the source of Fr Gruner's sudden death. You think it was done deliberately ?
By whom ? The KGB ? Why would they want him out of the way ? After all, he was called into the Russian Federation's Rome embassy to answer questions from supposedly high officials there about his area of expertise. After that, the Canadian-born "Fatima Priest" suddenly started writing pro-Putin, pro-Russia articles in his Fatima Crusader magazine. Beforehand, he had been strongly anti-Putin, considering him no more than a communist holdover. Fr Gruner had pounded in the theme for probably decades of Russia as a highly immoral country due to high rates of abortion, rampant alcoholism etc.
So you think the KGB did this ? He was doing either consciously or inadvertently just what the Russian spy organization wished. After all that magazine has a big circulation among North American traditional-minded Catholics and was positioned to influence the largely insular [ i.e. not too savvy about foreign affairs ] readership to a 180 degree different point of view of today's Russia.

Or -- you mean someone else did that using the same methods ? Who would be against him that much ? It seems his major enemies were other varieties of Traditional Catholics, including sedevacantists like the Dimond Brothers.

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Maria
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Re: Rocor-MP Synod re the 2 Anniversaries 1917-2017

Post by Maria »

Re: Father Gruner of the Fatima Center

I only mentioned Fr. Gruner's death to show that these tool of death are being used within the Orthodox Church and within the Roman Catholic Church to destroy devout traditionalists of good will. Not only the KGB, but also the CIA and the Freemasons have access to these tools of elimination.

During WWII, Freemasons killed many clergy and laity especially those who were devout traditionalists in the Orthodox Church in Austria, Hungary, Romania, Serbia, etc. Roman and Eastern Catholics also suffered persecution and were killed for their faith. Many of these Christians were brutally tortured, drugged, and then killed by firing squads. Others suffered horrific deprivations, starvation, denial of sleep, beatings, poisonings, medical experimentation, and other forms of mental and demonic torture in psychiatric prisons designed for political and religious dissenters. Romanians probably suffered the most as is evident in the life of Hierarch Glicherie of Romania cf. http://www.hotca.org/pdf/stglicherie.pdf.

Fr. Paul Kramer, a personal friend of Father Gruner, said that Fr. Gruner had confided to him that there was a Freemason who was working closely with him. Who it was, Father Gruner did not confide, but Father Gruner feared for his life, and then died about a week after informing Fr. Kramer of this fact. Not only did Father Gruner die of a sudden massive heart attack on April 15, 2015, but also John Vennari died two years later of cancer on April 4, 2017. John Vennari was recovering but then suddenly relapsed as if he were targeted twice. During those two years after Gruner's death, all of Fr. Gruner's assets, especially his stockpile of literature, prayer books, and religious items, ended up in the hands of pro-SSPX and pro-Francis people at the Fatima Center, which is bitterly opposed to the Servants of Jesus and Mary and Fr. Paul Kramer, and which is also decidedly anti-Putin and anti-Russian. The Servants of Jesus and Mary, under the direction of Fr. Paul Kramer, are firmly convinced that Francis is a heretic.

Nevertheless, within the past week, I received a recently published Fatima Center pamphlet, which was extremely anti-communist and anti-Freemason, and which I feel was disinformation. This pamphlet was produced, no doubt, in response to those of the Servants of Jesus and Mary which had accused the Fatima Center of having Freemasons on board. There is now lots of bad blood between these two groups as Father Kramer accuses Francis of being a heretic, and by implication, this means that the Fatima Center is spouting heresy too.

Re: The Dimond Brothers

The Dimond Brothers of Holy Family Monastery (MHFM) are a fringe group of Traditionalists who believe that Pius XII was the last pope. If you can know a person through his enemies, MHFM is vehemently opposed to World Orthodoxy, especially the MP and EP, True Genuine Russian and Greek Orthodox Christians, Francis and his Vatican II New Order Catholic Church, Father Gruner's ministry, Father Paul Kramer, Servants of Jesus and Mary, Fatima Center, etc. The Dimond Brothers, much like Bishop Gregory of Colorado, believe that they are the only Christians left in the world. However, MHFM have neither priest nor bishop associated with them, so they do not even have Sunday Mass at their monastery. Stay far away from them. Their MHFM website, which I will not link here, is a propaganda and recruitment tool.

Re. The Cathedral of the Holy Transfiguration in Los Angeles

Yes, the very demeanor of the ROCOR-MP clergy at that Cathedral in 2007 and before had an extremely negative impact on me. After that priest was brutally attacked, I never went back there as one could feel the extreme hatred. It was not of Christ.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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Barbara
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Re: Rocor-MP Synod re the 2 Anniversaries 1917-2017

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Re Fr Gruner's untimely demise : he had stated obliquely that he had some heart weakness and could die at any time in a few of his cover letters with the magazine. However, he was not very forthcoming about what precisely was his problem, so the hint went largely unnoticed. But when he did repose, there was such a shock and confusion amongst the staff that this indicates that something abnormal was at work. Everything there went absolutely quiet, and no details were provided for a long time. Even then, in one article about their founder's repose, the fact that it was a massive heart attack as you say, Maria, was not disclosed. Perhaps it was suppressed. Staff members and associates described what they had witnessed, that this occurred after Fr Gruner had celebrated Mass that morning, and as I think I remember, they were having a cup of -- beware ! -- coffee and making plans for future endeavors.

The author tried to dig up a correlation about the Saint's Day that it was and Fr Gruner's life work. But this was contrived, as there was nothing really to say : it was not any kind of major Feast or significant Saint's Day.
Perhaps that by itself points to the work of Freemasons ! Maybe it was a day for their evil calendar.

I did not know about the Freemason mole in the Fatima Center ! What a revelation. If only Fr Gruner had told Fr Kramer who it was. In fact one of the principal figures of the organization was John Vennari who wrote powerful articles exposing the Alta Vendita, the ruthless attempt to subvert the Catholic Church in Italy. I had thought it was strange that he reposed so soon after Fr Gruner. He was the editor of Catholic Family News and a frequent speaker at the gatherings of the Fatima Center. Quite a bit younger than Fr Gruner. Maybe this widely circulated information was what drew the Masonic attention to the Fatima Center to begin with ?

Regarding the split -- of which I had not heard a word -- apparently the magazine editor for 25 years, Coralie Graham, was shoved out the door by the new proprietors, along with one or two other major figures of the old Fatima Center. It indeed sounds like a major upheaval is underway. Thanks for your insightful and informative comments, Maria.

It sounds like all the conservative voices in both Orthodox and Catholic venues are being marginalized or silenced, doesn't it ?

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Barbara
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Re: Rocor-MP Synod re the 2 Anniversaries 1917-2017

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Back to the original topic, I am rather distressed to see a movement in Russia by Orthodox activists calling for leaving those monstrous ruby stars and/or other Soviet insignia on any building built after 1917, while removing them from pre-revolutionary edifices like the Kremlin towers.
This attitude is almost unbelievable to the ears of anti-Communists in the West and elsewhere.
Surely every single Communist emblem throughout the Russian Federation from north to south and coast to coast should be taken down instantly and tossed into a bonfire !

The movement espousing this idea is called "Forty Times Forty" for the approximate number of Churches within Moscow in happier days. The Russian news agency RIA-Novosti is giving them space on their pages, thus indicating the failure of the RF to take a firm stand in favor of abolishing all remnants of the Communist era -- and carrying through with that resolve, of course. Instead, a weak, waffling compromise seems to be all that is being advanced by official and non-official quarters.

“But looking at the Kremlin, the natural question arises: What happened to the imperial gold double-headed eagle with a scepter and orb, which is the emblem of our country, and what do the red stars have to do with the 500-year-old Kremlin, built by an Moscow Orthodox prince in the very heart of the Third Rome—the most powerful Orthodox kingdom?” the movement’s message reads.

"The Orthodox activists recalled that the Spasskaya, Troitskaya, and Nikolskaya towers of the Kremlin were named in honor of Christ, the Holy Trinity, and St. Nicholas the Wonderworker, and expressed bewilderment about why the stars, “under the sign of which was carried out a persecution of Christians unprecedented in world history, thousands of amazing cathedrals were blown up, relics were ravaged, believers were mocked, and children were taught to spit on icons,” remain on the towers to this day."

https://ria.ru/religion/20171115/1508851517.html

Justice
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Re: Rocor-MP Synod re the 2 Anniversaries 1917-2017

Post by Justice »

Barbara wrote:

Back to the original topic, I am rather distressed to see a movement in Russia by Orthodox activists calling for leaving those monstrous ruby stars and/or other Soviet insignia on any building built after 1917, while removing them from pre-revolutionary edifices like the Kremlin towers.
This attitude is almost unbelievable to the ears of anti-Communists in the West and elsewhere.
Surely every single Communist emblem throughout the Russian Federation from north to south and coast to coast should be taken down instantly and tossed into a bonfire !

The movement espousing this idea is called "Forty Times Forty" for the approximate number of Churches within Moscow in happier days. The Russian news agency RIA-Novosti is giving them space on their pages, thus indicating the failure of the RF to take a firm stand in favor of abolishing all remnants of the Communist era -- and carrying through with that resolve, of course. Instead, a weak, waffling compromise seems to be all that is being advanced by official and non-official quarters.

“But looking at the Kremlin, the natural question arises: What happened to the imperial gold double-headed eagle with a scepter and orb, which is the emblem of our country, and what do the red stars have to do with the 500-year-old Kremlin, built by an Moscow Orthodox prince in the very heart of the Third Rome—the most powerful Orthodox kingdom?” the movement’s message reads.

"The Orthodox activists recalled that the Spasskaya, Troitskaya, and Nikolskaya towers of the Kremlin were named in honor of Christ, the Holy Trinity, and St. Nicholas the Wonderworker, and expressed bewilderment about why the stars, “under the sign of which was carried out a persecution of Christians unprecedented in world history, thousands of amazing cathedrals were blown up, relics were ravaged, believers were mocked, and children were taught to spit on icons,” remain on the towers to this day."

https://ria.ru/religion/20171115/1508851517.html

Lord have mercy! who started this sect? what else are they advocating for? also, why would this be a problem if the churches had an Orthodox consecration? (obviously the MP expresses many heresies and therefore it is invalid but that is besides the point) does this sect not accept any Patriarch after St. Tikon for their blatant Sergianist teachings?

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Barbara
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Re: Rocor-MP Synod re the 2 Anniversaries 1917-2017

Post by Barbara »

Good questions, Justice.
Let me say, though, before I start answering [ the best I can do without Russian language access ], that the editor of the above article made a mistake in explaining the movement's name 40 Times 40 [ Sorok Soroka or Sorok Sorokov in Russian ] as the number of Churches gracing Moscow in the good old days. Instead, this Old Russian term is supposed to mean 'uncountable'. The co-founder of this movement clarifies this in a very brief interview with subtitles, saying that in this context, it means "uncountable army of Christ". I would amend that to "armies" myself. I hope that ALL Christ's armies are unconquerable, too !



Says wikipedia:

It is sometimes mistakenly interpreted as 40 times 40, i.e., 1600 churches in Moscow, which is of course an exaggeration: in 1917 there were "only" 441 parochial churches and slightly over 200 home churches in Moscow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorok

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Barbara
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Re: Rocor-MP Synod re the 2 Anniversaries 1917-2017

Post by Barbara »

About Sorok Sorokov, a 21 year old member wrote an article for Russia-Insider in which she describes a youth event this past September at Kolomenskoye [ where the Derzhavnaya Icon was discovered after a woman's vision in 1915, the year of the Tsar's abdication ].


"At first, “Sorok Sorokov” focused on three areas:

  1. Helping the Russian Orthodox Church in implementation of the Patriarch's program “200 churches” in Moscow, as well as the Orthodox communities that for some reason were not included in the program, but wish to build a church;

  2. Promoting healthy lifestyle within the program “Orthodoxy and Sport”;

  3. Deconstructing myths about Orthodoxy as a religion of the weak, which, allegedly, ideologically exhausted itself and attracts nobody, except for “the grandmas in headscarves and the exalted part of society"

http://russia-insider.com/en/christiani ... an/ri16647

I am not sure what is meant by 'exalted part of society', since the upper classes of today's Russia are not known to be more piously Orthodox than any other strata of society.

At any rate, we can see right off the bat that Justice's qualm about the movement's view of the Patriarchate and Sergianism is justified. The Sorok Sorokov clearly works hand in glove with the MP, as is clear from Point 1.

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