ROCOR-L UNANIMOUSLY VOTES TO UNITE WITH MP!

DIscussion and News concerning Orthodox Churches in communion with those who have fallen into the heresies of Ecumenism, Renovationism, Sergianism, and Modernism, or those Traditional Orthodox Churches who are now involved with Name-Worshiping, or vagante jurisdictions. All Forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.


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StephenG
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Post by StephenG »

Making good sense of what has happened within the Russian church of late is not so easy, I believe.

For all the decades I can remember there have always been a sense of prudent 'distance' at very best from the MP. The relationship with other jurisdictions was not so clear cut, certainly from the time of Metropolitan Philaret, of blessed memory. Yes, a stance against ecumenism but a less clear cut stance on the nature or relationships between ROCOR and other jurisdictions. Certainly I went with a priest and parishioners to Pan Orthodox vespers at the Serbian cathedral, all with the blessing of Vladika Nikodem (the only advice to the ROCOR priest was to distance himself from any MP clergy present). The strict convent of the Annunciation in the same diocese was regularly served by the then Father Kallistos (Ware) of the EP, and a lovely Serbian priest alternately.

The recent Synod get to together appeared to have the hall-marks of 'spin' and party management more appropriate to a New Labour party political conference than a serious and sober church event of such importance.

The MP involvement in ecumenism, interfaith activity, etc., seems not to have changed at all. If that is so, what has changed and what does anyone who struggles to make sense of the course of events, and the widely conflicting positions on both sides to conclude from it all?

A wanderer, trying to discern truth from falsehood

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Priest Siluan
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Post by Priest Siluan »

scwaterfowl wrote:

I'll address the others...
Many of the Catacomb churches are now by their own choice in the MP.

I (and I think many other ones) would have serious reservations if these ones in fact are true Catacombniks. I don't think that any True Catacumbnik would join to the MP, more even if one has present the declarations of Holy New Martyrs with regard to the true nature of the MP.

http://www.monasterypress.com/martyropinions.html

scwaterfowl

Post by scwaterfowl »

Ah, OK; once your argument has been blown apart (I'm being quite tactful here), you change direction.
So, the Catacomb churches that are now part of the MP, weren't really Catacomb churches????? Yeah, right. I'm sure they were just pretending.
And what is the true nature of the MP?? Please, let us know. What meetings or back room planning sessions have you been privy too? How many MP churches have you visited in Russia recently?? How many confessions have you heard from the MP bishops?? Since you are so "in the know", Priest Siluan, please tell us.
Seems to me that we are dealing with a couple issues; one, no confession or admission of guilt will be good enough for some. Second, some seem to hold on to Roman leanings; they quote the canons like Pharisees, but have no use or understanding of the spirit of them.
Anyone is with you as long as they agree, but the moment they don't, you need to come up with some reason or justification as to why they believe the way they do.
Of course, it couldn't be that someone, somewhere might have seen things as they really are. :roll:
If I were some outsider with no dog in the fight, I would look at both sides and see the absolute desperation and exteme lack of confidence in your argument. Everytime some point is addressed and dismissed, you come back with another; each one more absurd then the previous. As I posted earlier, its Weekly World News at Euphrosynoscafe; find the most scandalous, ridiculous, and obscure item and post it. Also, memorise each canon and make sure anyone that is not following it 100% is crucified. One seeking a PhD or Masters in the English language could use this site's discussion (if you can call it that) of the soon-to-be reunited Russian Church as an excellent example of the red herring.
Y'all are just grabbing at straws.
(For those that do not primarily speak English; please excuse my colloquial sarcasm.)

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JAMESthePERSIAN
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Post by JAMESthePERSIAN »

scwaterfowl wrote:

its Weekly World News at Euphrosynoscafe; find the most scandalous, ridiculous, and obscure item and post it.

So, Im not alone in my opinion that many of the postings on this website are scandalous, slanderous, gossip filled and downright ridiculous?

What a releif.... I thought I was losing my mind.... Godspeed Kakalak!

All Saints of America Orthodox Mission, Located in Dequeen Arkansas. The Mission strives to provide a welcoming community, in a quiet country setting, where individual members can work out their salvation and serve as a witness to the Orthodox Faith.
http://www.allsaintsofamerica.com/

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joasia
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Post by joasia »

It amazes me that the fact of ROCOR clergy meeting with Bartholomew is considered a form of brotherly union. Has nobody heard about Bartholomew's persecution of the monks at Esphimenou? Has nobody noticed the disintergration of services in the church where priests allow "catholic priests" to worship in the Holy Altar? Has nobody heard about how his priests perform adult baptisms(of non-Christian faiths) by making them kneel next to the baby font and pour water on their heads? And...Hello, hasn't anybody noticed the pews in all his churches?

He promotes ecumenical worship with ALL the religions of the world...worship, not communication. Is it no surprise that after the meeting in Constantinople, that ROCOR is being drawn into ecumenism? They went there to solidify it. Metropolitan Philaret would never have allowed that visit.

If some here would want to believe that there's no big deal about visiting that apostate of Christ, so be it. Live in your delusion(prelest).

As far as the catacomb church goes...time weeds out the wheat from the tare and those who are of true catacomb stance have not joined the union...so let's not draw a definite line that they are false, but my question would be...where are the true. A true catacomb faithful would not let himself be exposed; that's the whole purpose of being a catacomb; to preserve the faith against all worldly manipulation, for the sake of worshipping Christ and preserving His church.

Joanna

Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)

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Sean
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Post by Sean »

joasia wrote:

It amazes me that the fact of ROCOR clergy meeting with Bartholomew is considered a form of brotherly union. Has nobody heard about Bartholomew's persecution of the monks at Esphimenou? Has nobody noticed the disintergration of services in the church where priests allow "catholic priests" to worship in the Holy Altar? Has nobody heard about how his priests perform adult baptisms(of non-Christian faiths) by making them kneel next to the baby font and pour water on their heads? And...Hello, hasn't anybody noticed the pews in all his churches?

He promotes ecumenical worship with ALL the religions of the world...worship, not communication. Is it no surprise that after the meeting in Constantinople, that ROCOR is being drawn into ecumenism? They went there to solidify it. Metropolitan Philaret would never have allowed that visit.

If some here would want to believe that there's no big deal about visiting that apostate of Christ, so be it. Live in your delusion(prelest).

As far as the catacomb church goes...time weeds out the wheat from the tare and those who are of true catacomb stance have not joined the union...so let's not draw a definite line that they are false, but my question would be...where are the true. A true catacomb faithful would not let himself be exposed; that's the whole purpose of being a catacomb; to preserve the faith against all worldly manipulation, for the sake of worshipping Christ and preserving His church.

Joanna

Thank you, sister.

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strastnaya
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Post by strastnaya »

joasia wrote:

It amazes me that the fact of ROCOR clergy meeting with Bartholomew is considered a form of brotherly union. Has nobody heard about Bartholomew's persecution of the monks at Esphimenou? Has nobody noticed the disintergration of services in the church...
Joanna

So if the EP is "out there" in his practice of Orthodoxy how does the Church bring him back?
If he is not a condemned heretic or schismatic but still within the Church, albeit with a multitude of problems, from whom does he hear of the need for repentance on these issues?
I don't think Pat. Bart reads this forum.
Obviously, the ROCOR re-entering communion with the other patriarchates will hopefully provide some assistance in this regard.
There is only one Church and it is in communion.
Break the communion and you cannot claim to be in the same Church, although it has been tried (Met. Cyprian)
So if you believe the EP isn't Orthodox than neither will the ROCOR be soon and then why did you ask the question?
In Christ,
Deacon John

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