Is an Orthodox Christian Tonsure like the RC one?

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Justice
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Is an Orthodox Christian Tonsure like the RC one?

Post by Justice »

I can't seem to find a picture of a Orthodox tonsure, but is it like the Roman Catholic one or is it completely different?
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Maria
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Re: Is an Orthodox Christian Tonsure like the RC one?

Post by Maria »

Three religious tonsures can take place in Orthodox Christianity: Baptismal, monastic tonsure, and the tonsure as a Reader as the first step towards the priesthood.
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Justice
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Re: Is an Orthodox Christian Tonsure like the RC one?

Post by Justice »

Are the baptismal and monastic tonsures like the Roman Catholic ones?
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Maria
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Re: Is an Orthodox Christian Tonsure like the RC one?

Post by Maria »

Justice wrote:Are the baptismal and monastic tonsures like the Roman Catholic ones?
Perhaps in the past, but not in current times. Rome has used Vatican II as permission to change all their sacraments and ceremonies. In fact, Rome has been separated from us for almost a thousand years now, so lots of innovations have occurred. Indeed. their "Mass" was even changed back in the 800s where the Trisagion Hymn and other sacred parts were eliminated. By the way, the elimination of the Trisagion was purposely done to get rid of any Byzantine influences, but Rome did leave the Greek Kyrie Eleison within their "Mass," so many uneducated Roman Catholics think that the Kyrie is part of the Latin Mass, not realizing that it is a Greek prayer.

Next, the triple initiation rite of Baptism, Chrismation, and Communion were separated into three sacraments, which were administrated separately: Baptism shortly after birth, Communion around the age of seven (the age of reason), and Confirmation sometime after the age of 14. Therefore, many Catholics are never confirmed because they lose the "Faith" in their early teen years. Also, the elements of Communion were served separately where the "unleavened wafer' (another innovation) was served exclusively to the laity, but the clergy partook of the two elements.

Baptism in Roman Catholicism has been changed repeatedly with the rite of tonsure being eliminated and then being added again. However, most importantly, it is the lack of the Triple Immersion which is lacking in Roman Catholicism rendering their sacrament of Baptism and its form invalid and ineffective.

Monastic tonsuring used to impart the balded round spot worn by Franciscan and Dominican monks, so it was a visible sign.
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Justice
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Re: Is an Orthodox Christian Tonsure like the RC one?

Post by Justice »

Maria wrote:
Justice wrote:Are the baptismal and monastic tonsures like the Roman Catholic ones?
Perhaps in the past, but not in current times. Rome has used Vatican II as permission to change all their sacraments and ceremonies. In fact, Rome has been separated from us for almost a thousand years now, so lots of innovations have occurred. Indeed. their "Mass" was even changed back in the 800s where the Trisagion Hymn and other sacred parts were eliminated. By the way, the elimination of the Trisagion was purposely done to get rid of any Byzantine influences, but Rome did leave the Greek Kyrie Eleison within their "Mass," so many uneducated Roman Catholics think that the Kyrie is part of the Latin Mass, not realizing that it is a Greek prayer.

Next, the triple initiation rite of Baptism, Chrismation, and Communion were separated into three sacraments, which were administrated separately: Baptism shortly after birth, Communion around the age of seven (the age of reason), and Confirmation sometime after the age of 14. Therefore, many Catholics are never confirmed because they lose the "Faith" in their early teen years. Also, the elements of Communion were served separately where the "unleavened wafer' (another innovation) was served exclusively to the laity, but the clergy partook of the two elements.

Baptism in Roman Catholicism has been changed repeatedly with the rite of tonsure being eliminated and then being added again. However, most importantly, it is the lack of the Triple Immersion which is lacking in Roman Catholicism rendering their sacrament of Baptism and its form invalid and ineffective.

Monastic tonsuring used to impart the balded round spot worn by Franciscan and Dominican monks, so it was a visible sign.
Thank you for asking my question Maria, back when I first asked it I hadn't fully looked into the western and eastern rites.I finally found out monasteries such as Lindisfarne before and after the great schism dressed like modern Roman Catholic monks. The only difference is at that time they used the Celtic calendar. So I guess if Orthodoxy were to have a western rite again, would the monks receive a tonsure and dress like modern day Roman Catholic monks?
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NotChrysostomYet
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Re: Is an Orthodox Christian Tonsure like the RC one?

Post by NotChrysostomYet »

Justice wrote:
Maria wrote:
Justice wrote:Are the baptismal and monastic tonsures like the Roman Catholic ones?
Perhaps in the past, but not in current times. Rome has used Vatican II as permission to change all their sacraments and ceremonies. In fact, Rome has been separated from us for almost a thousand years now, so lots of innovations have occurred. Indeed. their "Mass" was even changed back in the 800s where the Trisagion Hymn and other sacred parts were eliminated. By the way, the elimination of the Trisagion was purposely done to get rid of any Byzantine influences, but Rome did leave the Greek Kyrie Eleison within their "Mass," so many uneducated Roman Catholics think that the Kyrie is part of the Latin Mass, not realizing that it is a Greek prayer.

Next, the triple initiation rite of Baptism, Chrismation, and Communion were separated into three sacraments, which were administrated separately: Baptism shortly after birth, Communion around the age of seven (the age of reason), and Confirmation sometime after the age of 14. Therefore, many Catholics are never confirmed because they lose the "Faith" in their early teen years. Also, the elements of Communion were served separately where the "unleavened wafer' (another innovation) was served exclusively to the laity, but the clergy partook of the two elements.

Baptism in Roman Catholicism has been changed repeatedly with the rite of tonsure being eliminated and then being added again. However, most importantly, it is the lack of the Triple Immersion which is lacking in Roman Catholicism rendering their sacrament of Baptism and its form invalid and ineffective.

Monastic tonsuring used to impart the balded round spot worn by Franciscan and Dominican monks, so it was a visible sign.
Thank you for asking my question Maria, back when I first asked it I hadn't fully looked into the western and eastern rites.I finally found out monasteries such as Lindisfarne before and after the great schism dressed like modern Roman Catholic monks. The only difference is at that time they used the Celtic calendar. So I guess if Orthodoxy were to have a western rite again, would the monks receive a tonsure and dress like modern day Roman Catholic monks?
Like traditional Benedictines, yes.
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Re: Is an Orthodox Christian Tonsure like the RC one?

Post by Barbara »

I had recently seen a pictorial illustration of the habits of various Orders of Catholic monks when I read the post above, so I dug it out again. It should be known that most all Orders wore/wear a scapular, called because it goes over the shoulders [ covering the scapula bone on the back ] and reaches the hem of the monk's cassock.

The only major Orders which don't have this feature are the Augustinians and the Franciscans. Thus look for scapulars in any Western Rite movement !

Then there is a short cape around the shoulders worn by several Orders : the Dominicans, Trinitarians, Mercedarians, Servites and lesser known today, the Holy Cross Canons.

That unpleasant looking tonsure must have been instituted to preserve the monk's humility. Unfortunately, likely it kept a fair number of aspiring ascetics from being tonsured over the centuries, for who wants that appearance ?
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