RTOC: Who are they? What is their history?

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Priest Siluan
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Re: RTOC: Who are they? What is their history?

Postby Priest Siluan » Wed 3 July 2013 3:25 pm

Maria wrote:
Priest Siluan wrote:Yes, it is not the same RTOC, the RTOC under Archbishop Tikhon has not any so called "Western Rite" parish in USA (or in any place in the world).


In order to help inquirers like MariaA discern the truth, I did a Google search of RTOC - Western Rite Orthodox Christians. This is the website that I obtained: http://www.theorthodox.org/bishop.htm

This website has the heading: RTOC-AdNA, and their leading hierarch is Metropolitan ALEXY, Archbishop of Minneapolis and Chicago. Who is he?

Reading this website gives the impression that they are against ecumenism and Sergianism.

Obviously, this Western Rite RTOC (RTOC-AdNA Western Rite) is not under Archbishop Tikhon, and neither is it the same RTOC as presented in the OP (Opening Post) of this thread.


Dear in Christ, Maria!

Thank you! This group is other from many gruops claiming to be "True-Orthodox" or "Catacomb", but it is other from many group coming from the "Sekachevtsy", a very doubtful group, created by Gennady Sekach in the early 70's, a MP Priest, who while he was serving as a Priest in the MP, he claimed to be a "Catacomb Bishop", without any real proof about having been concecrated as a bishop by somenone. Some people believe that he was a KGB agent, who was trying to infiltrate himself inside the Catacomb Communties. He teached teach that in the MP, is the Grace "hidden" or something like this, so he advised the Catacomb people to attend and receive the MP "Misteries". It is interesting that the Met. Agafangel group acepted two Bishops from the Sekach gruop (and only by kherotesia), and since that the Gennady Sekach ecclesiology would be not so far from the Cyprinism.

But returnig to this gruop of this Bishop Alexy and others "Sekachevtsy" (the Raphael Prokopiev-Motovilov Group is one of them), they knowing that the apostolic sucesion of Sekach is no demonstrable, some of them asked to be consecrated by the uncanonical Ukainian Autocephalist. So these gruops have not any relation with the real True Orthodox Curch in Russia or ROCOR, and the most from their "Bishops" and clerymen are former MP clergymen.

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Re: RTOC: Who are they? What is their history?

Postby Barbara » Wed 3 July 2013 5:15 pm

Yes, a Western-Rite RTOC led by Archbishop Tikhon sounds totally comical !
I am chuckling right now at the very idea.

It's great that Maria A brought this matter to our attention, though, and that of all future readers here.

I had not any idea of the existence of this group and I MUCH appreciate Fr Siluan's explanation.
I am foggy on ALL the catacomb groups, so I wouldn't mind a basic primer, if anyone can suggest an impartial ones.

Maria A, most of us came from Catholicism, too, having a similar mindset to what you describe.
Take heart ! There ARE solutions to the dilemma you are facing.

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Re: RTOC: Who are they? What is their history?

Postby Lydia » Thu 4 July 2013 12:21 am

"The Russian Orthodox Church in America," was founded in 1998 "Metropolitan" Simeon (Holdridge-Ioannovsky), former Primate of "American Orthodox Church." In the jurisdiction "of the ROC in the United States" remains dozens of small American parishes, as well as a monastery in honor of St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco. Part of the parishes performs services on the Western rite. For the training of clergy acts Seminary behalf of St. Innocent of Alaska, located in Denver.

This is from a website( in Russian) that attempts to track the various Orthodox jurisdictions in America. I think this is the one that MariaA is referring to.

Metropolitan Alexy of Minneapolis is in communion with the Antiochians. Although it is difficult to be certain, I believe he is part of the synod that the MP established in America in 1927, with Bishop Sophronius as its head.

I'd stay away from both of them.

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Re: RTOC: Who are they? What is their history?

Postby Priest Siluan » Thu 4 July 2013 12:58 am

I think there is a little confussion this Abp. Alexy was in the Synod of the late Met. Vyacheslav, a defrocked FROC/ROAC clergyman, who joined to Raphael Pokropiev group (or some of Sekachevtsy, I do not remember), he was "concecrated" there as a "bishop", and then he left and created his own Synod and was elevated as "Metropolitan of Moscow". If I remember rightly, this Abp. Alexy was a MP clergy in Ukraine, and fled from there to USA for some legal question or some thing like this.

As for Met. Symeon from the "The Russian Orthodox Church in America", I think that he nothing has to do with any gruop claiming be the real RTOC or the Catacomb Church in Russia. His jurisdiction is an American issue.

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Re: RTOC: Who are they? What is their history?

Postby Lydia » Thu 4 July 2013 1:10 am

Thank you, Father! I'm sorry for the errors.

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Re: RTOC: Who are they? What is their history?

Postby Priest Siluan » Thu 4 July 2013 1:40 am

Lydia wrote:Thank you, Father! I'm sorry for the errors.


You are welcome!God bless you!

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Re: RTOC: Who are they? What is their history?

Postby MariaA » Thu 4 July 2013 3:07 pm

Lydia wrote:Metropolitan Alexy of Minneapolis is in communion with the Antiochians. Although it is difficult to be certain, I believe he is part of the synod that the MP established in America in 1927, with Bishop Sophronius as its head.

I'd stay away from both of them.


Are you referring to this western-rite RTOC AND the Antiochian jurisdiction? I knew to steer clear from this RTOC, I mistakingly thought any RTOC was suspect. Nostaglia sent me searching for a western-rite. I learned my lesson. Thank you for your information here. I first attended two Antiochian jurisdiction parishes and found them to be very different from each other, therefore confusing to me. I am receiving instruction through a ROCOR, however, the 'catechism' was put together by a former (angry) protestant turned Orthodox and I have instead opted to read through The Law of God by Slobodskoy. Is that book an adequate teaching source? I wish for spiritual direction. Something I have never had, except through my prayers and reading of the Bible


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