Traditional Christians Who Find Themselves Without Bishops

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Justin Kolodziej
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Traditional Christians Who Find Themselves Without Bishops

Post by Justin Kolodziej »

I think I have found a problem with Met. Seraphim's Confession of Faith, namely:

h) I confess that the local Church of Greece remained complete and perfect between the years 1924-1935 despite the fact She was left without bishops in the same period.

http://media.wix.com/ugd/9060ee_7f65e85 ... 1c2b3b.pdf

Now, why couldn't we apply the same principles to the Russian Old-Believers, who, at the beginning were Orthodox Christians whose only "crime" was using liturgical books considered Orthodox for hundreds of years instead of the revised liturgical books Pat. Nikon forced on them, which contained many more changes than just a change in the calendar? Then, they were falsely "anathemized" (despite not professing a single heresy) and persecuted, and not a single one of the other local Churches came to their aid (thus going into schism and losing the grace of their mysteries), and eventually they also ran out of bishops. Couldn't we come to the conclusion that today the Priestless Old Believers are the complete and perfect Orthodox Church despite not having any sacraments available except Baptism, since there were no bishops for so long that eventually none existed anywhere in the world to ordain any new priests or bishops?

To me it seems to be a questionable statement at best, though saying that something was lacking could imply the local Church of Greece could not canonically receive the 3 bishops at that time.

Edited to add link as this post has been split from the original into a new thread due to a change in topic.
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Re: Traditional Christians Who Find Themselves Without Bishops

Post by Maria »

Justin Kolodziej wrote:

I think I have found a problem with Met. Seraphim's Confession of Faith, namely:

h) I confess that the local Church of Greece remained complete and perfect between the years 1924-1935 despite the fact She was left without bishops in the same period.

Now, why couldn't we apply the same principles to the Russian Old-Believers, who, at the beginning were Orthodox Christians whose only "crime" was using liturgical books considered Orthodox for hundreds of years instead of the revised liturgical books Pat. Nikon forced on them, which contained many more changes than just a change in the calendar? Then, they were falsely "anathemized" (despite not professing a single heresy) and persecuted, and not a single one of the other local Churches came to their aid (thus going into schism and losing the grace of their mysteries), and eventually they also ran out of bishops. Couldn't we come to the conclusion that today the Priestless Old Believers are the complete and perfect Orthodox Church despite not having any sacraments available except Baptism, since there were no bishops for so long that eventually none existed anywhere in the world to ordain any new priests or bishops?

To me it seems to be a questionable statement at best, though saying that something was lacking could imply the local Church of Greece could not canonically receive the 3 bishops at that time.

Interesting question, Justin.

I guess the difference between the True Orthodox Christians of Greece and the Old-Believers is the length of time involved.

The True Orthodox Christians were under the spiritual guidance of St. Matthew the New Confessor and other saintly priests who were able to celebrate Divine Liturgies and to administer the Holy Mysteries of Baptism, Chrismation, Confession, Holy Eucharist, Matrimony, Funerals, and Holy Unction. Thankfully, they did not run out of Holy Chrism during that time of roughly 11 years.

The Old Believers had to endure a much longer period of time during which all their bishops and priests died, and all they had left were the laity (no readers, no subdeacons, no deacons, and no priests). And without chrism, they did not even have the essential Holy Mystery of Holy Communion. Read St. John 6:53-58.

Even the catacomb churches during the time of the Soviet Union, still had wandering priests and bishops who could administer the Holy Mysteries in the forests, etc.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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