Visit of HOCNA clergy to St. Maximus Parish

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Cyprian
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Visit of HOCNA clergy to St. Maximus Parish

Post by Cyprian »

Visit of HOCNA clergy to St. Maximus Parish
http://www.hotca.org/index.php?option=c ... &Itemid=74
Friday, 28 August 2009 02:37

On August 10/23 Bishop Demetrius of Carlisle, together with two other priests of HOCNA, Fr. John Fleser and Fr. Peter Farnsworth, attended a festal Liturgy at St. Maximus parish in Owego, New York. At this celebration Metropolitan Pavlos awarded Fr. Thomas Marretta, the rector of St. Maximus, the office of Protopresbyter for his dedicated service to the Church as a priest for 30 years. Metropolitan Pavlos invited the clergy from Boston to attend as a sign of unity among the True Orthodox Christians; this being especially appropriate in view of Fr. Thomas’s long-standing friendship with the clergy of HOCNA and the fact that he was baptized into the Orthodox Faith at Holy Transfiguration Monastery in Boston, MA. We wish Fr. Thomas Many Years on his reception of the honor of the protopresbytery, and pray that such demonstrations of brotherly support from other True Orthodox jurisdictions will become more frequent!

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It is quite unfortunate to learn that Met. Pavlos invited clergy from the heretical group "HOCNA" to one of their festal liturgies.  It is even more disturbing that HOTCA refers to the HOCNA as "True Orthodox Christians" and as a "True Orthodox Jurisdiction".  The leaders of HOCNA have shown no indication of repenting of any of their heresies, but rather they appear to be becoming more entrenched, as recent unorthodox articles published by the HOCNA's Met. Ephraim demonstrate.  

May we all pray that Met. Pavlos and Bp. Christodoulos return to their senses and abandon their planned path to unity with this heretical group.

One wonders if Bp. Christodoulos, or perhaps a spokesman acting on his behalf, would like to explain to us how it is that their churches in America are adorned with icons of the Holy Trinity, with the Beginningless Father depicted as an old man (The Ancient of Days), while the HOCNA has officially and very publicly declared these icons to be heretical, and will not adorn their assemblies with depictions of these types.  Is this some sort of old-calendarist ecumenism at work?  It appears to be that way.  Either these depictions are sacred, holy, and canonical, and ought to be venerated by the faithful, as has been the tradition of the Church dating back many centuries, or they are not!

Either HOCNA must repent of their slander of these sacred depictions, and abandon the Trinitarian heresies that accompany their unorthodox rejection of these icons, or, God forbid, the HOTCA will be forced to admit that these icons which have adorned many of their temples in America, and in their sister synod in Greece for decades, are kakodox!

It is naive to believe that these two groups can share any "unity" or "communion" together while holding diametrically opposed opinions with regards to the holy icons and other doctrines.  This is something we have come to expect from the anti-Christ inspired World Council of Churches, but not something that one would expect to learn from churches claiming to adhere to the Gospel teaching of "One Lord, one faith, one baptism."

It appears that HOTCA and HOCNA are content to proclaim a unity amongst themselves, while maintaining not One, but rather two faiths--one publicly and unabashedly opposed to the icons, and the other maintaining a long tradition of adorning their churches with said icons.

Kyrie eleison!

Old-calendar ecumenism is rearing its ugly head.  Unity cannot come at the expense of Truth.
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mmcxristidis
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Re: Visit of HOCNA clergy to St. Maximus Parish

Post by mmcxristidis »

"It is quite unfortunate to learn that Met. Pavlos invited clergy from the heretical group "HOCNA" to one of their festal liturgies. It is even more disturbing that HOTCA refers to the HOCNA as "True Orthodox Christians" and as a "True Orthodox Jurisdiction".

Not sure if this is true but I've heard from a couple of sources that the GOC Synod in Greece which Met. Pavlos is with is'nt all that happy with him and especially Bishop Christodulos and have asked that Met. Pavlos retire the bishop to his monastery, which the Met. refuses to do, and has even threatened to leave that jurisdiction if they continue meddling in his affairs in the USA.
If this is true then I wonder if Met. Pavlos is perhaps jurisdiction shopping and considering joining with HOCNA.<

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Re: Visit of HOCNA clergy to St. Maximus Parish

Post by Anastasios »

Where do people come up with this stuff?

This is one of the reasons that I never log on to this site, even though I own it! Maybe I will just shut the thing down, if it's just a place for people to spread gossip.

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Re: Visit of HOCNA clergy to St. Maximus Parish

Post by Kybihetz21 »

Although I do agree that sometimes some people go too far on this forum (and many other Orthodox sites on the Internet), I believe that threatening to close a public forum just because one is the owner or moderator, and one doesn’t agree with what is being said on it, is quite disgraceful, preposterous and selfish. Worse things have been written here, and I don’t recall anyone bullying and intimidating the members of this forum with the threat of closure. Anyone who owns or moderates any forum, whether public or private, Television show, or any sort of discussion group, where difficult and conflictive themes are being conversed by its members/visitors, must know that in more than one occasion he will encounter antagonism, disagreements, or arguments, and that as the owner or moderator, it will be his job to witness and moderate those discussions in a professional manner, not just threaten to close or disband the assembly.

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Re: Visit of HOCNA clergy to St. Maximus Parish

Post by mmcxristidis »

Fr Anastasios wrote:

Where do people come up with this stuff?

This is one of the reasons that I never log on to this site, even though I own it! Maybe I will just shut the thing down, if it's just a place for people to spread gossip.

I said I did'nt know if it was true or not as far as the GOC jurisdiction that Met. Pavlos is with being unhappy with him and Bishop Christodulos. However, I have heard more than a couple people, some members of your jurisdiction, some not, say their dissatisfied with Bishop Christodulos for a number of reasons.
Are you the sole owner of this website? If so, and are unhappy with members posting things you disagree with, then instead of shutting it down, why not just kick everyone off and limit membership to only members of your own jurisdiction. Make sure to do a extensive background check to be sure they are who they say they are and be sure to closely monitor each and every thing posted to censor whatever you don't agree with.
Don't worry, you'll have plenty of time to do this as I'm sure you'll only have a handfull of people to deal with.

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Re: Visit of HOCNA clergy to St. Maximus Parish

Post by Anastasios »

Kybihetz21 wrote:

Although I do agree that sometimes some people go too far on this forum (and many other Orthodox sites on the Internet), I believe that threatening to close a public forum just because one is the owner or moderator, and one doesn’t agree with what is being said on it, is quite disgraceful, preposterous and selfish. Worse things have been written here, and I don’t recall anyone bullying and intimidating the members of this forum with the threat of closure. Anyone who owns or moderates any forum, whether public or private, Television show, or any sort of discussion group, where difficult and conflictive themes are being conversed by its members/visitors, must know that in more than one occasion he will encounter antagonism, disagreements, or arguments, and that as the owner or moderator, it will be his job to witness and moderate those discussions in a professional manner, not just threaten to close or disband the assembly.

Thanks for expressing your opinion. Let me respond to each point:

1) First of all, I was being a bit hyperbolic to make a point.
2) Calling my action disgraceful, preposterous, and selfish is a bit over the top.
3) I am not bullying or intimidating anyone. That is really an outrageous thing to say.
4) "Worse things have been written here" --> Obviously. I didn't read one post and come to the conclusion that I should shut down the forum. I was thinking of the totality of the site over the years and how it seems to do little to further the work of Christ.
5) As for your lecturing me on how this site should be run, thanks for the input. I have run websites and forums for years, and this one is one of the most contentious and accusatory. When it was given to me by Nicholas Stanosheck I almost didn't accept it, but I didn't want it to be closed since there was a community here. Since that time, I have had little time to invest in it given my other commitments, and Fr Mark does a good job but he is equally busy. People often complain to me that the site is going nowhere, but rarely does anyone offer to help.

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Re: Visit of HOCNA clergy to St. Maximus Parish

Post by Anastasios »

mmcxristidis wrote:
Fr Anastasios wrote:

Where do people come up with this stuff?

This is one of the reasons that I never log on to this site, even though I own it! Maybe I will just shut the thing down, if it's just a place for people to spread gossip.

I said I did'nt know if it was true or not as far as the GOC jurisdiction that Met. Pavlos is with being unhappy with him and Bishop Christodulos. However, I have heard more than a couple people, some members of your jurisdiction, some not, say their dissatisfied with Bishop Christodulos for a number of reasons.
Are you the sole owner of this website? If so, and are unhappy with members posting things you disagree with, then instead of shutting it down, why not just kick everyone off and limit membership to only members of your own jurisdiction. Make sure to do a extensive background check to be sure they are who they say they are and be sure to closely monitor each and every thing posted to censor whatever you don't agree with.

Cyprian has an ongoing thing with our Church and Romanides, HOCNA, etc, and you post gossip with a disclaimer that you don't know if it is true. Well if you don't know if it's true, then don't post anything about it. And if our Church is heretical because some people like some of Romanides's ideas and want to see a union with HOCNA then fine, ignore us after the umteenth time we do something that you don't like.

Whether people are dissatisfied with Bp Christodoulos or not has nothing to do with HOCNA so I won't be going down that path.

Yes, I am the sole owner of this website. But you totally missed the point. I don't care if people post articles and make statements that I disagree with--I disagree with a lot of what is posted here and took on this site even though in the past I was frequently attacked by people on this forum when I was an ecumenist. I obviously don't take things personally. My concerns are more with what outsiders think, who are inquiring in to Orthodoxy, when they find this site.

Don't worry, you'll have plenty of time to do this as I'm sure you'll only have a handfull of people to deal with.

If I felt that this site was not furthering the work of Christ, I would close it down completely. I am not interested in creating a small site where only people in my jurisdiction post. I already know what they think since I talk to many of them on the phone, in person, and via email. I find the high level of gossip and innuendo on this site to be bothersome and today that just hit me for whatever reason.

Bottom line is, if anyone has a question about any priest or bishop, go contact them first instead of running straight to the internet. There is a time and a place for everything.

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