Dante and Francis of Assisi

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Maria
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Dante and Francis of Assisi

Post by Maria »

jdigrande wrote:

Dante never touched on the real theological concerns of the Late Middle Ages .... He only took up the issues of vice in the Inferno. Heaven according to Dante included Francis of Assisi who was a heretic infected with both the Papist heresy and Stage 4 prelest in its advanced form (he thought he was Christ).

He was illiterate theologically and was so full of himself that he could be called the Donald Trump of the late Middle Ages. He is the father of liberation theology of the Papists in the 20th and 21st century. Later Franciscans were more theologically astute and made Francis look like a theological dunce in comparison. He willed himself to have the stigmata in his drive to be seen as a spiritual big shot. The more attention and adulation he received, the more he liked it.

Who is he (bolded above)? Does this pronoun refer to Francis, the founder of the Franciscans? And how is he the father of liberation theology?

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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Re: Dante and Francis of Assisi

Post by jdigrande »

Francis of Assisi. His main goal was to embrace poverty and work with the poor. This was taken up in the 20th century by liberation theology which discounted theological dogma and embraced the poor.

To share with all became the byword and socialism on the governmental level especially in Latin America became the goal with many Jesuits including the current pope very involved. He took the name Francis when he became Pope.

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Re: Dante and Francis of Assisi

Post by Maria »

So, Francis of Assisi could be said to be the Father of Liberation Theology.

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Re: Dante and Francis of Assisi

Post by jdigrande »

Yes one of them- the earliest in my opinion. He is cited continually as such by the Liberation Theologians

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Re: Dante and Francis of Assisi

Post by jdigrande »

Francis of Assisi were revolting against Benedictine monasticism. Indeed the Dominicans, Franciscans and Jesuits revolted against the Benedictines during the Renaissance. Francis brought emotions to the fore as far as spirituality. The Jesuits built on this.

Francis's concentration on poverty, taking some quotes out of context of the Scriptures and running with them laid one of the foundations for liberation theology and socialism in the 20th and 21st century.

Another foundation for 20th century socialism was the Englishman Thomas More and his book Utopia. It proposed a socialist state headed by a philosopher-king (or philosopher Pope). It takes one verse out of the Acts of the Apostles (the Christians "held all things in common") and tried to build a Latin social system on this basis. 19th and 20th century Popes wrote many encyclicals moving toward this and the current Pope builds on both of these Latin saints. This current Pope would prefer that all be under him and he would destroy usury and capitalism and get back to the "good old days."
He blames capitalism (usury writ large) for the destruction of the planet. Capitalism equals the passion of avarice in his mind. Dostoyevski wrote much on this topic in the 19th century as far as the growth of socialism and the Papacy's desire to be in control of it worldwide: They term it Christian socialism which is the basis for liberation theology.

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Re: Dante and Francis of Assisi

Post by jdigrande »

There were two other currents in play during this period (900-1600). One of them was the revolt against both Eastern Orthodox and Benedictine spirituality. Keltic monasticism which came to Ireland and Wales from Egypt in the late 4th and 5th century was totally discarded. At the start of this period there was even a Benedictine monastery on Mt. Athos.

Starting with the Cluniacs and including the Cistercians, Franciscans, Dominicans and Jesuits, the spiritual emphasis was on the either the development of the intellect or the emotions. The actual hesychastic goal of the Acquiring the Holy Spirit within oneself (like St. Seraphim spoke of) was not important at all to these heretical orders.

And the doctrines which imbued them with the prelestian confidence to pursue their emotional and intellectual goals were threefold:

  1. Purgatory:

I once told my heretical father that I needed go confession. I had just converted to Orthodoxy 7 months earlier. He stared at me with worry creased on his face and asked while studying my face intently,

"Have you killed somebody?" I exclaimed, "No!."

He laughed and said "Forgetaboutit, lets go play golf."

I was to forget about confession because from 900 on Purgatory became central to the heretical mindset. 95% of the Latins saw Heaven in the bag since the Cluniac Revolution in the 10th century. You live, you sin continually, you obtain and pay indulgences for a good papal lawyer and you go to jail (Purgatory) for as little time as possible (if you have followed the Papal rules and have paid enough into the indulgence retirement system). You get paroled and you enter Heaven for eternity. 95% of the heretical population saw themselves destined for Dante's Purgatory in the 13th century.

There was no such thing as a narrow road to Heaven. It was a wide road to Heaven that seduced the Latin celilbates into these religious orders and drugged the more sinful hoi polloi into a false sense of security.

How seductive was Purgatory? Most of the Orthodox bishops at the Council of Florence in 1437-39 did not know the difference between the Filioque and a piroshski. St. Mark knew the difference and backed the Council of Blachernae (1285) which had condemned it.

Metropolitan Bessarion knew the difference and was a believer in Thomas Aquinas'd view of the Filioque (and Puragtory) even before he got there but the vast majority of bishops sat through the theological sessions on the Filioque nodding themselves to sleep. They woke up occasionally and agreed that the Latins did not have the power to insert the Filioque into the Creed but the actual doctrine of the Filioque was beyond them. The Dominican Papal argument for the insertion was based on Papal power trumping any Council.

But for the vast majority of Orthodox bishops and the Tsar, Purgatory was a huge temptation. It was seen as a great way to extort more money from the Byzantine hoi polloi if believed and enforced through the indulgence system which was on full display in Florence and Ferrara during the two years they were there.

It also gave their consciences a free pass for their own transgressions (including betraying the faith at Florence in the pursuit of peace with the Latins and the military elimination of the Turks). They could simply pay for some more indulgences if wrong and get their Purgatorial jail sentence reduced for signing the "peace" of Florence.

Purgatory was also easily understood by even the most theologically dense Orthodox bishops and Tsar. And if they understood it, they could sell it to the hoi polloi easily once they got back to the East, or so they thought.

  1. Hellenism: The Foundation of the Renaissance.

Getting to Heaven requires an ascetic, heyshcastic life of denial. But Hellenism does not. When you mention the word Hellenism, most Greeks puff up their chests at their glorious pagan past. Hellenism requires intellectual and artistic work but not "the one thing needful."

It does not require prayer or fasting. It does not require reading the Fathers of the Church or the Bible. Central and Northern Italy was drooling over the Orthodox bishops and assorted big shots as they got off the boat in Venice. They walked by St. Mark's heretical church which had half of the stolen religious Constantinople stuffed inside and did not say a word of protest.

The Italians praised the Orthodox because they were Hellenic, not because they were Orthodox. They had the texts, translators and tradition from the ancient Greek world at their finger tips and Renaissance Italy was literally dying for it. They were dying and drooling for the pagan world to return in full force. They got their wish and the Orthodox who got off the boat in Venice delivered it to them on a silver platter.

  1. The Papacy- The Enforcer of Pagan Hellenism and Purgatory.

It is always easy to hand over one's moral choices to someone else. At the 2nd Coming, how many times will we hear when we are condemned, "I was just following Papal orders."

It was the Papacy from the 10th century that embarked on innovation. Purgatory was their salvation too. It gave them the false moral confidence to enshrine the belief that that the ends justify the means writ large.

Both Francis of Assisi and Pope Innocent III in 1215 were both quite satisfied with the rape of Constantinople which happened 11 years earlier. The words "Thou shalt not steal" meant as much to them as it meant to Custer looking at the Black Hills in 1869.

The end of suffering (Purgatory) for both of these heretics was the end that was hoped for spiritually. The Pope wanted to become both the Roman Emperor and High Priest at Florence. Dostoyevski talks about the human nature of the hoi polloi at length in his last book. He said that people do not love moral freedom at all. They hunger to give it to a Pope, a Stalin or a Hitler and then at the 2nd Coming, they can offer the excuse: "I was only following orders." even if those orders are Hellenic, Masonic, Communistic et al and have nothing to do with the orders given in the Gospels.

The Orthodox bishops who kissed the Popes ring in Florence wanted to surrender their moral compass to the Pope, save Hellenism/the physical city of Constantinople from the Turks and rely on Purgatory/Indulgences for any mistakes or sins committed along the way.

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Re: Dante and Francis of Assisi

Post by jdigrande »

If the Orthodox Church would have been healthy at Florence in 1439 and expressed that spiritual health directly in the face of the Renaissance and Papacy they should have begun the negotiations on five pillars:

  1. A return of all relics, gold, etc to Constantinople which was stolen in 1204.
  2. Reinstatement of the 8th Council (879) as Ecumenical in the West and the East
  3. Recognition of the Council of Blachernae 1285 (Against the Latin heretic Beccus and the Filioque) as an ecumenical pillar of the church.
  4. Recognition by the Latins of the Palamite Councils of 1341-51 as ecumenically binding on the entire church.
  5. Purgatory is heresy.
  6. The Pope is not the head of the Church, but only holds primacy of honor as a Patriarch If he theologically repents) because of the deaths of St. Peter and Paul in that city and not because of any his personal attributes

And all these conditions would not be a matter of negotiation. They are to be confronted, discussed, understood and then surrendered to.

A couple of weeks ago the Pope met with and prayed with the NC, Russia at Bari. How little has changed since 1439.

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