What is the traditional Orthodox position on Jews and Judaism? From what I can see, it seems to vary depending on period in history and location. It seems today like many people prefer to waterdown and reinterpret St. Chrystostom's comments, but what has the historical view been?
In Christ,
Brendan
Jews are the people through whom God worked in Old Testament times, prior to Jesus Christ. They are still God's people, and there is the warning in Genesis (I don't remember the citation now) that "God blesses those who are with the Jews, and condemns those who are against the Jews." So it's best to not be against the Jews 
The sending of Jesus allowed God to reach all men - not just Jews. However, He has not broken His promise to them.
Interestingly, I've read that one reason that America has been so blessed in recent history is that she is the lone supporter of the state of Israel in the world -- and for this, God blesses America. Most of the world that actively persecutes Jews and Israel -- the Muslim countries and secular western Europe come to mind - is not as peaceful as place as the USA. In my opinion, America should not change her foreign policy in this respect.
I've also read that one reason God allowed the downfall of "Holy Russia" was because of her poor treatment of Russian Jews.
Lastly, it's silly for any Christian to "blame" Jews for Jesus's death on the Cross -- our Holy faith is based on Christ's crucifixion -- without Christ's death on the Cross and resurrection there is no Christianity - and it was God's Divine plan to allow the Jews to crucify Him. Christians who "blame" Jews for Jesus's death have no clue what they are talking about.
stgregorythetheologian wrote:Jews are the people through whom God worked in Old Testament times, prior to Jesus Christ. They are still God's people, and there is the warning in Genesis (I don't remember the citation now) that "God blesses those who are with the Jews, and condemns those who are against the Jews." So it's best to not be against the Jews
As recall it didn't specifically say Jews.
Interestingly, I've read that one reason that America has been so blessed in recent history is that she is the lone supporter of the state of Israel in the world -- and for this, God blesses America. Most of the world that actively persecutes Jews and Israel -- the Muslim countries and secular western Europe come to mind - is not as peaceful as place as the USA. In my opinion, America should not change her foreign policy in this respect.
What you are responding with is dispensational theology which isn't the traditional Christianity, let alone Orthodox. Actually the dispensationalist view came out the 1800s Protestantism. It was not the view of Christianity for 1800 years, but a serious heresy.
The state of Israel was founded in 1948, but do you think America has become more moral or less? Has Christian influence increased or decreased? I don't think we have been blessed since 1948.
I've also read that one reason God allowed the downfall of "Holy Russia" was because of her poor treatment of Russian Jews.
One thing that I find curious is so many people always start off with what someone else has done to the Jews. Such a premise assumes that whatever Jews do is therefore only a justified reaction. I'm not so sure that I agree with that.
Lastly, it's silly for any Christian to "blame" Jews for Jesus's death on the Cross -- our Holy faith is based on Christ's crucifixion -- without Christ's death on the Cross and resurrection there is no Christianity - and it was God's Divine plan to allow the Jews to crucify Him. Christians who "blame" Jews for Jesus's death have no clue what they are talking about.
Well, I agree that it doesn't sense today for us to "blame" the Jews for instigating Christ's death. Apparently, however, Christ knew they would do it.
What I am wondering is that whenever I see some effort to fight Christian expression in America, Jews seem to be always found in the forefront.
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Indeed. This is not the Orthodox viewpoint. We are the new Israel.
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Matthew 27:24-26
24 And after Pilate saw that nothing was to be of use, but rather that an uproar was taking place, he took water and washed off his hands for himself before the crowd, saying, "I am innocent of the blood of this just One; ye shall see to it."
25 And all the people answered and said, "His blood be on us and on our children."
26 Then he released Barabbas to them; but after he scourged Jesus, he delivered Him up in ordeer that He might be crucified.
First, historically, what is called Judaism today is not the same religion as the religion of the Old Testament. The most obvious example of a major difference is that the religion of the Old Testament was centered entirely around the worship of the temple and a complex sacrificial system as outlined in the Torah. Judaism today has no sacrifices and no Temple, and is completely reoriented.
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Historically, at the time of Christ, the religion of the Old Testament had blossomed into a vast number of different sects and groups. We encounter a few of them in the pages of the New Testament. Out of those various inheritors of the Old Testament/Israelite religious tradition, following the destruction of the Temple, and then Jerusalem, only two groups survived. One is Christianity. The other is Rabbinic Judaism. Rabbinic Judaism is the continuation of the religion of the Pharisee sect from the time of Christ. In the first and early second centuries, the chief debate was between these two groups, as to which one represented the true continuation of the Old Testament Faith. This is manifested in the pages of the New Testament, and in the early debates with the Quartodecimians. It even plays out in the issues of Old Testament canon, with Rabbinic Judaism forming the Masoretic text after several failed attempts to re-edit the Septuagint and de-Christianize its renderings. Therefore, it is incorrect to say that Christianity came from Judaism. Rather, Judaism and Christianity come out of a common root, the religion of the Old Testament.
That said, the clear testimony of Scripture and the Fathers is that Judaism is a completely invalid religion that is /not/ the Faith of the Old Testament. As Jesus says to the Pharisees:
"You do not know me or my Father. If you knew me, you would know my Father also." (John 8:19)
Therefore, Judaism's god is not God the Father, because if they knew Him, they would also know Christ. And again:
"If you were Abraham's children, then you would do the things Abraham did. As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. You are doing the things your own father does....You belong to your father, the Devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a muderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him....The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God." (John 8:39-41, 44, 47)
Therefore, Judaism, because it does not share Abraham's Faith in Christ, is not 'descended from Abraham', and is not the Old Testament Faith, but Christianity is. Likewise, we have to look at Islam in this context. They cannot be worshipping God (the Father) because they do not know Christ. Likewise, their claim to Abraham's faith is equally as false as Judaism's. One can debate whether Judaism and Islam worship the same god, I suppose, but that god isn't the Father.
This is the clear teaching of Scripture and the Fathers, but in today's politically correct climate, no one wants to be accused of being intolerant or anti-Semitic for saying it. For references in the Fathers on this issue, I'd refer everyone to St. John Chrysostom's sermons against the Judaizers, and the excellent little volume of Melito of Sardis "On Pascha" put out by St. Vladimir's Seminary Press.Taken from the writings of John Cassian at OCN.
Lounger wrote:First, historically, what is called Judaism today is not the same religion as the religion of the Old Testament. The most obvious example of a major difference is that the religion of the Old Testament was centered entirely around the worship of the temple and a complex sacrificial system as outlined in the Torah. Judaism today has no sacrifices and no Temple, and is completely reoriented.
Thanks for taking the time for a substantial response. The only minor point I would disagree on is that today's rabbinic Judaism actually places the Talmud above the OT, but in the Talmud one finds many instances of Scriptural nullification and vulgar topics such as women's menstrial blood and weird discussions on sex. For example, it is debated whether involuntary beastiality would make a woman unfit to be a rabbi's wife.
"If you were Abraham's children, then you would do the things Abraham did. As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. You are doing the things your own father does....You belong to your father, the Devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a muderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him....The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God." (John 8:39-41, 44, 47)
This is where I become a bit confused, since I have read these Bible verses and they appear pretty unambiguous. Yet among many Christian leaders, we see an attitude of reverence towards the Jews. I couldn't figure out that if these folks really believed that the Jews were still enjoying God's favor and had all these protections and wonderous prophesies to be fulfilled, why did Christ bother and why would anyone not immediately convert to Judaism?
Anyway, I don't see any of today's Orthodox leaders addressing the subject of Jews.
The Orthodox book publishers sell books on defending against the false teachings of Islam, but nothing on the same with regard to Judaism. Has the world become so politically correct that Judaism cannot even be discussed except in terms of praise?
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