Orthodox View of Jews

Patristic theology, and traditional teachings of Orthodoxy from the Church fathers of apostolic times to the present. All forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.
Moronikos
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Post by Moronikos »

There probably not many books on Judaism compared to Islam because 1) there are a lot more followers of Allah, 2) Judaism does not try to prosyletize as much as Islam, 3) the four planes which were hijacked and of which two crashed into the WTC were piloted by Islamicists and not Jews.

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George Australia
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Re: Judaism, Anti-Semitism, Old and New Israel and God

Post by George Australia »

stbrendan wrote:

Has the world become so politically correct that Judaism cannot even be discussed except in terms of praise?

Dear Brendan,
I think any Orthodox Christian who has attended Great and Holy Saturday Matins can hardly be called "politically correct!"

FROM THE MATINS OF GREAT AND HOLY SATURDAY

"...Are you not ashamed?
Tell me, do not all those dead he raised up
shame you, for the Giver of life is he,
whom from spiteful envy, Jews, you did to death ...

...Why so boastful Israel,
people tainted with blood?
why did you deliver Barabbas from his pains,
yet hand over Christ the Saviour to a Cross?...

...Those he fed with manna
raised their heels against him,
against the Benefactor...

...Those he fed with manna
bring vinegar and gall now
to offer to the Saviour...

...O the boundless folly
of those who slew the prophets
and now slay God’s Anointed...

...Law-transgressing Hebrews
on the crooked paths they tread
face pits and traps and sharp snares...

'Tis well that such words be sung
only in Koine and Slavonic toungue. :wink:

In Christ,
George

brendan

Post by brendan »

moronikos wrote:

There probably not many books on Judaism compared to Islam because 1) there are a lot more followers of Allah, 2) Judaism does not try to prosyletize as much as Islam, 3) the four planes which were hijacked and of which two crashed into the WTC were piloted by Islamicists and not Jews.

All of those are good points. I would modify my agreement with the point, however, that the conflict between Judaism and Christianity has existed for much longer, so I would expect more books should be in print on the issue.

On the internet, there are websites dealing with this topic, but almost always from a pro-Jewish perspective.

One book that I found very revealing in discussing Jewish teachings on Christianity was

"Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years" by Israel Shahak.

Its an real eyeopener.

John the Russian
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Post by John the Russian »

Greg,

I hate to break it to you but you have had the wool pulled over you reyes if you belive that Jews were persecuted in RUssia. They in fact enjoyed more freedom and better living conditions than anywhere else in the world. They had total religious freedom, freedom to trade and own businesses and were often the most wealthy ones in town. The supposed "Pogroms" are a fabrication that the wrold has been fed by comminists who used these rumors to gather support.

I have to agree also that the Jews of today are not the same as the Jews of old. If they were they would belive in the same God as we do and therefore in his son.

Moronikos
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Post by Moronikos »

When I read Fr. Seraphim Rose's biography, I remember coming across a passage where he was asked about the Pogroms. My recollection of it was (approximate quote): "It is not necessary to defend the stupid or the sinful." IOW, he wasn't going to defend any actions of any Orthodox Christians that participated in pogroms. He did not attempt to deny the reality of the pogroms. I don't know very much about Russian history being an engineer, but whenever I hear such denials, I think of those that also deny the holocaust in Germany.

brendan

Post by brendan »

moronikos wrote:

When I read Fr. Seraphim Rose's biography, I remember coming across a passage where he was asked about the Pogroms. My recollection of it was (approximate quote): "It is not necessary to defend the stupid or the sinful." IOW, he wasn't going to defend any actions of any Orthodox Christians that participated in pogroms. He did not attempt to deny the reality of the pogroms. I don't know very much about Russian history being an engineer, but whenever I hear such denials, I think of those that also deny the holocaust in Germany.

Is whether pogroms happened or not and why they happened a theological issue? All one has to do is look around the world to see many groups in conflict with each other.

But since its been brought up, if pogroms happened why do many people automatically assign blame to the Christians. I think its unrealistic to think that the Jews are always innocent victims. Presuming Christians are always at fault in any Christian-Jewish conflict is simply reverse anti-semitism.

Its a curious thing why the subject of Judaism is not discussed or written about in Orthodox circles. I mean there's lots of books and pamphlets written by Orthodox authors on Islam, Protestantism, Catholicism, Jehovah Witnesses, Evangelicals, New Age, and virtually every cult, sect, or religion known - EXCEPT Judaism. This is very interesting given that so much of the NT deals with Jews. Also since, as I mentioned previously, practically every time Christian expression is attacked, Jews and or Jewish groups are conspicuously in the forefront. Take the attacks by Jewish groups on Mel Gibson's movie as just one example that's been in the news.

-

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George Australia
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Post by George Australia »

stbrendan wrote:

Its a curious thing why the subject of Judaism is not discussed or written about in Orthodox circles.

Dear Brendan,
It is not discussed so much precicely because we are Orthodox Christians, and inheritors of the Apostles' teaching. Here is a brief summary of what the Apostles told us about the Jews:
Salvation came to the Gentiles through the disobedience of the Jews.

ROMANS 11: 1-11
I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I am also an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew....I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles."

Whats more, Gentiles should not be boastful nor contemptuos of the unbelieving Jews:

ROMANS 11: 16-24
For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. But if you boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then 'branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.' Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. Because if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Therefore, consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but towards you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness, otherwise, you will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree."

The Divine Apostle then reveals a great "mystery" (verse 25). That while the Gentiles are being saved between the two Comings of Christ, so are the elect among the Jews so that "all Israel" (both Old and New) will be saved. (verses 26-27)

We also know from the Fathers, that at the time of Antichrist, Elijah and Enoch will come to preach repentance, Elijah to the Jews and Enoch to the Gentiles, and a remnant of the Jews will be saved. (Apocalypse 11:3-12)

Don't be quick to judge a people God has made promises to Brendan. Even if they have not been faithful, God is faithful and will keep His promise to Elijah that a remnant will be saved. We should concentrate on ourselves, because if God cut away natural branches to graft us, we had better bear fruit, because the natural branches will be offered another chance.

In Christ,
George

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