Learn greek chant...

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

http://chant.hchc.edu/#

I usually don't like these kinds of things, but this one isn't too bad!

(For anyone interested in Greek Chant.)

[Nektarios14]

This post sort of sparked a question I've had for awhile, why did some of the Churches (Slavs, Georgians and Romanians) not use byzantine chant? I don't think the issue of keeping the melody through a translation works since all of the Holy Mountain used Byzantine chant until fairly recently (like 1800s or so) .

[Anastasios]

But even Byzantine chant developed under the Turkish period. Being in isolation these things change. Now that we have recording devices we can stop such change, though, fortunately.

Byzantine Chant can be adapted for any language really. I mean if they can do it in Arabic...

I do like some real Russian chant like Znammeny Tone 6 and Kievan Tone 5.

anastasios

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Anastasios,

From everything I have read, Byzantine Chant predates the Turks by many centuries. In fact, the Muslims picked up the 8 tones and a whole host of other practices from Orthodox Christians.

Someone always told me that Muslims didn't accomplish anything but conquest. Much of their architecture, cooking, science, social systems, ect were learned from more civilized societies. The more I read the more I see it's true.

Where are you getting your information?

[Anastasios]

OOD,

Note that I did not say "originated." I said, "developed." It was a clear cut case of sharing between two cultures. For instance, Tone 2 as celebrated by Arabs picks up a lot more of what we would consider Tone 6's attributes (beyond the times when the chant is supposed to do that and which Greeks do, owing to Tone 6 being the plagal of tone 2). In other words, Arab Orthodox modify Tone 2 to sound like Tone 6 even when the chant system does not appoint this. The reason? In Arab musical scales there is a folk scale that sounds just like Tone 6 and they adapt to it (this is all complex music theory that I don't claim to understand myself). It has to do with the microtones, etc., which we learn from our culture; in other words, if you don't grow up understanding the microtones, you won't get them unless you try real hard, and your ear will adapt them and you will sing them differently, hence the American problem with singing Tone 1 in its irmologic melody, I am told.

The stuff about sharing between the Turks and the Greeks musically comes from Dr Alexander Lingas, a famous Byzantine chanter in America. Again, I am not saying Byzantine Chant did not exist before them; of course it did (we even have many manuscripts). But it DID develop stylistically and in some cases the melodies evolved.

anastasios

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

I see, I can agree with that.

Although tape recorders or not, the notation is very useful in maintaining style and method. How much it was preserved I don't know, but sometimes you are shocked at how preserved something can be from generation to generation, and then again, soemtimes you are shocked at how much has changed. I know little if anything about it.

We do have a person in our church who is pursuing his doctorate in Byzantine studies, and is our resident chanter. I'm sure he could add more than a few comments here - I'm just a stooge.

And I can certainly see how different languages can be difficult to sing by the strict notation. Clearly Byzantine chant was taylored for the Greek language. The only people I have heard successfully adapt it to English were people who were really good chanters to begin with, and then had some experience (of course) doing it.