Schismatic Old Calendarism is an Anti-Patristic Stance

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Pensees
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Post by Pensees »

Sean wrote:
Pensees wrote:

You obviously know nothing about us. FYI: this is a True Orthodox Forum. Why do you keep lurking here and posting on this site if you think we're schismatics? You aren't even Orthodox. Go post on a monophysite forum.

I'm joining the OCA, which is a canonical Orthodox jurisdiction. I hope that you please join a canonical Orthodox jurisdiction also. Groups like HOCNA and ROAC are bad news. Don't you think there's any weight to the allegations of abuse surrounding ROAC and HOCNA? I'm not saying these things to hurt you, but to help show you that there is a better way. Canonicity brings accountability.

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stumbler
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Post by stumbler »

We should all join "churches" which are in communion with the MP - and have Stalinistic Succession in place of Apostolic Succession? I'll pass, but thanks for the invite.

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GOCTheophan
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Post by GOCTheophan »

Pensees wrote:

I'm joining the OCA, which is a canonical Orthodox jurisdiction. I hope that you please join a canonical Orthodox jurisdiction also. Groups like HOCNA and ROAC are bad news. Don't you think there's any weight to the allegations of abuse surrounding ROAC and HOCNA? I'm not saying these things to hurt you, but to help show you that there is a better way. Canonicity brings accountability.

So is OCA.

Look at the finanical irregularities there. Look at some of the sick websites of its member promoting homosexuality- one even puts forward the Lord Christ as an object of their perverted lust. I was told about these through an OCA member.

I agree with Sean- if either of us would go to a World Orthodox forum and state our True Orthodoxy we would be showered with abuse. I have seen it so many times before.

Met Valentine has been cleared of the charges made aganist him. No state court case was taken aganist HTM.

While I disagree strongly with HOCNA about the soul after death, the Dogma of Redemption, the nature of the Eucharist and some other things Im not sure at all if it is right to bring up allegations not proven in a court of law.

Anyway the reasons the Lavrite-psuedo-ROCORniki HATE HOCNA is due to their opposition to ecumenism and sergianism- no dogmatic or moral reason.

Theophan.

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Pensees
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Post by Pensees »

stumbler wrote:

We should all join "churches" which are in communion with the MP - and have Stalinistic Succession in place of Apostolic Succession? I'll pass, but thanks for the invite.

Have you considered that the MP may have repented?

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Sean
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Post by Sean »

Pensees,

The word canonical means, "In accordance with the Holy Canons of the Church." World Orthodoxy has repeatedly shown blatant contempt for the Holy Canons. To SCOBA jurisdictions, canonical simply means "With us."

We use the same word, but it has two totally different meanings. Heresy separates one from God. Ecumenism, Sergianism, Renovationism, and Phyletism are God-hating doctrines which deprive one of Salvific Grace. I would sooner be dead than unite myself to any of the historical patriarchates that have fallen away from the Church.

Some people prefer cupcakes. I, for one, care less for them...

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stumbler
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Post by stumbler »

Pensees wrote:
stumbler wrote:

We should all join "churches" which are in communion with the MP - and have Stalinistic Succession in place of Apostolic Succession? I'll pass, but thanks for the invite.

Have you considered that the MP may have repented?

Yes. If they had repented, they would have come to ROCOR and asked for forgiveness and the proper procedures for them to be received back into the church could have begun. They would have stripped hierarchical rank from everyone who was/is an operative of the KGB/FSB, including the Patriarch, and assigned them to monasteries, as is usually done.

This never happened. Instead, they led ROCOR into non-canonical status along with them. Mark my words- it won't be too long before Sergius is canonized as a saint.

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Sean
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Post by Sean »

From http://www.roac-suzdal.narod.ru/testimonies.htm

TESTIMONIES FROM THE HOLY SCRIPTURES AND THE HOLY FATHERS ON THE NECESSITY OF HAVING NO COMMUNION WITH HERETICS AND SCHISMATICS, THE ENEMIES OF CHRIST

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 “And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron: This is the law of the Passover: no stranger shall eat of it. And every slave or servant bought with money – him thou shalt circumcise, and then shall he eat of it. A sojourner or hireling shall not eat of it. In one house shall it be eaten.” Exodus 12.43-46.
 
 St. Apraphat of Syria writes that the “one house” in which the Passover is to be eaten is “the Church of Christ”, and that just as the slave could not eat the Passover unless he was circumcised, so the sinner “comes to Baptism, the true Circumcision, and is joined to the People of God, and communicates in the Body and Blood of Christ”. Demonstrations 12, 525.8, 525.12.
 
 St. John Chrysostom writes: “Let no-one communicate who is not of the disciples. Let no Judas receive, lest he suffer the fate of Judas… I would give up my life rather than impart of the Lord’s Blood to the unworthy; and I will shed my own blood rather than give such awful Blood contrary to what is right.” Homilies on Matthew, 83.6.
 
 St. John the Almsgiver said: “We shall not escape sharing in that punishment which, in the world to come, awaits heretics, if we defile Orthodoxy and the holy Faith by adulterous communion with heretics.” The Life of St. John the Almsgiver.
 
 St. John of Damascus writes: “With all our strength let us beware lest we receive Communion from or give it to heretics. ‘Give not what is holy to the dogs,’ says the Lord. ‘Neither cast ye your pearls before swine’, lest we become partakers in their dishonour and condemnation.” Exposition of the Orthodox Faith, IV, 13.
 
 “Holy things to the holy!”  The Divine Liturgy.
 
 “And the Lord said to Joshua, Rise up: why hast thou fallen upon thy face? The people has sinned, and transgressed the covenant which I made with them; they have stolen from the accursed things (Greek: anathema), and put it into their store. And the children of Israel will not be able to stand before their enemies, for they have become an accursed thing (anathema); I will no longer be with you, unless ye remove the accursed thing (anathema) from yourselves.” Joshua 7.10-11.
 
 “Let any Bishop, or Presbyter, or Deacon that merely joins in prayer with heretics be suspended, but if he has permitted them to perform any service as clergymen, let him be deposed.” Apostolic Canon 45.
 
 “Let any clergyman or layman who enters a synagogue of Jews, or of heretics, to pray be both deposed and excommunicated.” Apostolic Canon 65.
 
 “Concerning the necessity of not permitting heretics to come into the house of God, so long as they persist in their heresy.” Canon 6 of the Council of Laodicea.
 
 “That one must not accept the blessings of heretics, which are rather misfortunes than blessings.” Canon 32 of the Council of Laodicea.
 
 “That one must not join in prayer with heretics or schismatics.” Canon 33 of the Council of Laodicea.
 
 St. Maximus the Confessor said: “Even if the whole universe holds communion with the [heretical] patriarch, I will not communicate with him. For I know from the writings of the holy Apostle Paul: the Holy Spirit declares that even the angels would be anathema if they should begin to preach another Gospel, introducing some new teaching.” The Life of St. Maximus the Confessor.
 
 “Chrysostomos loudly declares not only heretics, but also those who have communion with them, to be enemies of God.” St. Theodore the Studite, Epistle of Abbot Theophilus.
 
 “Guard yourselves from soul-destroying heresy, communion with which is alienation from Christ.” St. Theodore the Studite, P.G. 99.1216.
 
 “Some have suffered final shipwreck with regard to the faith. Others, though they have not drowned in their thoughts, are nevertheless perishing through communion with heresy.” St. Theodore the Studite.
 
 “The divine and sacred canons say: ‘He who has communion with an excommunicate, let him be excommunicated, as overthrowing the rule of the Church.’ And again: ‘He who receives a heretic is subject to the same indictment…’ The great apostle and evangelist John says: ‘If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching with him, do not greet him and do not receive him into your house; for he who greets him communicates with his evil deeds’ (II John 10-11). If we are forbidden merely to greet him on the way, and if inviting him into our house is prohibited, how can it be otherwise not in a house, but in the temple of God, in the sanctuary at the mystical and terrible Supper of the Son of God… Whoever belches out the commemoration of him who has been worthily cut off by the Holy Spirit for his arrogance towards God and the Divine things, becomes for that reason an enemy of God and the Divine things.” From an Epistle of the Martyred Fathers of the Holy Mountain to Emperor Michael Palaeologus against the heretical Patriarch John Beccus of Constantinople.
 
 “All the teachers of the Church, and all the Councils, and all the Divine Scriptures advise us to flee from the heterodox and separate from their communion.” St. Mark of Ephesus.
 
 “Be not unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what partnership have righteousness and iniquity? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God.” II Corinthians 6.14-16.
 
 “Come out of her, My people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues.” Revelation 18.4.

Some people prefer cupcakes. I, for one, care less for them...

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