GOA now tonsuring women as clergy?

[George Australia]

I am going to ask that all posts on the issue of the Calendar henceforth be posted exclusively to the following thread only:

http://www.EuphrosynosCafe.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9

Whoops, didn't see this until it was too late (and neither did spiridon apparently). Feel free to revise this thread again, even though your original revision included the word "Calendarism" in the title. You are, of course, free to revise it in order to make it what you consider to be correct. However, you may need to consider removing the word "calendarism" from the title of the thread since it will no longer be about Calendarism, and will therefore be misleading (kinda like calling "March 21st" the "Vernal Equinox" when in fact the Vernal Equinox occured 13 days earlier on March 8th).

[joasia]

George,

The calendar of the church is based on eccesiastical calculations; the holy fathers have followed this and I am including St. John of San Franscico, who also celebrated by this calendar. Would you like to refute a saint too? As you see from the cycle of the church calendar, it counts up from Pentecost going all around to the time of Great Lent. It may not always fall along the same time frame of the astronomical cycle. Here's a website that explains it more: http://aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/docs/easter.html

But, what the Gregorian calendar does(and yes it was the 17th century, I am bad with dates), is switch back to the world(Gregorian calendar) and sometimes miss the fast of St. Peter and Paul; that doesn't make any sense. If you follow the church calendar, then follow it...why switch?

Firstly, If we don't listen to scientists and astronomers, and if we don't make celestial observations, then how do we know when to celebrate the Holy Hours of the Church? When should Vespers being? When should Matins begin? How do we know when Midnight is in order to close the Triodion and open the Pentecostarion to end the Fast and celebrate the Pascha?

We don't have to "listen" to astronomers of this world in order to observe the cycle of the sun and the moon. Why do you nitpick about my spiritual comments? You obviously don't understand what I'm saying.

And Secondly, you need to know when the Vernal (Spring) Equinox is in order to celebrate Pascha and all the moveable Feasts in accordance with what the Fathers decreed at the First Ecumenical Council.

That's a laugh since your calendar(Gregorian) will bypass the fast of Sts. Peter and Paul, in some years. You either follow the calendar schedule or you don't.

You can't just say that "I will follow the Fathers and not astronomers", because the Fathers decreed that we need to "follow the astronomers" to calculate Pascha

The holy fathers followed the eccesiastical calendar. When did the holy fathers say that we should follow the astronomers? If so, then I should check my horoscope tomorrow.

What I'm saying is that I don't trust the worldly astronomers. And if astronomy is a good thing then I can base some decisions in my life on the stars. So what's your sign? I bet you were born in April or Novemeber.

As to the rest of your comments where you find it necessary to bold the word: False...I have to say this...I think Greek men are arrogant. I have met plenty in my life and their aggressive personalities are a major turn off. They know nothing about having conversations, they just talk at you. They think that they know everything and that they are going to teach you what it's all about; no matter what subject. But, I will add that there are 2 or 3 that, that I know, who have a more calmer personality. But, most are in your face.

So if you want to make a substantial point, say it with concern and not like you are the know all and be all. This is my answer to all your responses that start off with the word, FALSE.

Joanna

[George Australia]

So if you want to make a substantial point, say it with concern and not like you are the know all and be all. This is my answer to all your responses that start off with the word, FALSE.

Translation: "Stop presenting me with facts when all I want to do is make moral decisions based on emotive arguments. Just use emotions like "concern" in your arguments because I cannot deal with facts."
Frankly, joasia, I think the problem with so many "seperatist-traditionalists" is that they do things because they feel strongly about issues without actually thinking about them. And one common denominator seems to be that if they are Bishops, they will surround themselves with women (most often Nuns), and women tend to highly emotional, and make decisions based on what they "feel", believing this to be the equivalent of "discernment".
So "no" joasia; I will not "dumb it down" and remove facts to leave only emotion just because you have an issue with Greek men. I'm not changing, so either deal with it or ignore me.

[George Australia]

BTW, I have continued discussing the Calendar Issue in the other thread the administrator has asked us to, so I won't answer your "feelings" of mistrust for astronomers here unless you bring it up on the other thread.

[joasia]

George,

I presented you with facts too and a link which you didn't address. The topic of astonomy is in this post and therefore I posted here. Which is the other post you refer to? And why do you refrain from responding about the link I posted? That's not like you...to not respond with opposing facts.

I am not opposed to facts...just the delivery of them, with arrogance. Just present the facts. You don't need to make emphasis with words like...FALSE. This just exemplifies your arrogant attitude.

I'm not a seperatist(many Quebecers would laugh with me on this point). I'm just, plainly, a traditionalist and I don't care to be sucked up into the vortex of ecumenism. I don't care for Orthodoxy to be measured at the same level with roman papists; they have no rights in eccleastical matters.

I do have a heart and I do have a brain...hence my constant concern about the church issues. But, there is that arrogance again, in you. You know, this Greek co-worker actually said to me, yesturday: you don't have much of a life, do you? Just because I mentioned that I was looking forward to the pizza our department was going to get today; he thought that this was an important issue to me. No. I had just made a comment. Does he know about the issues I am concerned about? Does he know about the plethora of posts I've made here? Does he know about my prayers? Does he know about what I went through in my life? NO. He just made his own judgements about what my life is worth and he judged that it is worth nothing. THAT is arrogance. Do you think my life is worth nothing?

So when you say that I say things without "actually thinking" about them...who are you to say that? Another arrogant Greek, that's all. Instead of discussing, you make judgements.

And your final comment: I am not changing, so either deal with it or ignore it..is exactly the same comment, this other Greek made on another occasion; a co-worker, at that...in the work place. Exactly, to the final word.

And I've seen many Greek men with this attitude. Out of 100 Greek men...I have only met one that did not think like this. The typical attitude of Greek men is arrogance...you can at least see that much. Afterall, didn't you see the movie: My Big Fat Greek Wedding. Anybody who has know a Greek has met someone of one of these characters...and I'm not even including the women. There are another 100 Greek women that fall into this catagory, that I know. The culture breeds the people and the Greeks have a certain attitude developed from their breeding, no matter if they are born in Canada or Australia.

So, I say to you...I'm not changing, so deal with it or ignore it.

Joanna[/b]

[尼古拉前执事]

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