The Great East-West Schism

[尼古拉前执事]

Chrysostomos, I actually didn't find romatiy all that clear, especially where it went on about the sicknedd of religion. Do you think you can overview it for me here? Thanks in advance & God Bless!

[cparks]

Chrysostomos, I actually didn't find romatiy all that clear, especially where it went on about the sicknedd of religion.

You wouldn't be the first...

His style is somewhat dense and can be very difficult reading at times.

Anyway, I would start with FRANKS, ROMANS, FEUDALISM, AND DOCTRINE. It's not as hard to parse as some of his writing on religion as neurobiological sickness.

Here's the gist:

"Charlemagne had arranged to get the title 'Emperor' in exchange for Leo's exoneration. Leo almost spoiled things because Charlemagne wanted the title recognized by Constantinople-New Rome whose real 'Emperor of the Romans' would never recognize this full title for a Frank. This is why Charlemagne never used this title in his official documents, using instead the titles 'Emperor and Augustus, who governs' or 'administers the Roman Empire'. By claiming that he ruled the Roman Empire, Charlemagne thus clearly meant that he governed the whole Roman Empire. The Franks decided that the Eastern part of the Empire had become 'Greek', and its leader, an emperor of 'Greeks'. This is why Otto III (983-1002) is described in the year 1000 by his chronicler as 'visiting the Roman Empire', meaning, simply, the Papal States.

The Romans called their empire Romania and respublica. The Franks reserved these names exclusively for the Papal States and literally condemned the Eastern part of the Empire to be Graecia.[ 8 ] The Franks were very careful to always condemn 'Greeks' as heretics, but never Romans, although East and West Romans were one nation. Thus at the Council of Frankfurt (794), the Franks condemned the 'Greeks' and their Seventh Ecumenical Synod in the presence of the legates of the Roman Pope Hadrian II, an aggressive promoter of this same Seventh Ecumenical Synod. "

As dull of a theologian as Charlemagne seems to have been, his tactic here is rather shrewd. The Fathers always understood "Greek" to mean pagan. After Charlemagne, the eastern Church magically morphed into "the Greeks" and the label stuck. A few centuries later, Boniface VIII uses this phrase specifically in his famous Unam Sanctum, which has always made me somewhat suspicious of RC "explanations" of what he "really" meant by saying that everyone who didn't confess that it was necessary for salvation to be subject to the Roman pontiff must also confess to not being the sheep of Christ.

[Joe Zollars]

Hey now, ya'll are talkin' about my Ancestors!

Joe Zollars

[Mary Kissel]

Hey now, ya'll are talkin' about my Ancestors!

Joe Zollars

Actually Joe, your anscestors would be Orthodox, not Roman Catholic if you go back far enough

MaryCecilia

[cparks]

....what did you think? Even some Orthodox think he was a bit out there at times, but I haven't read anything that seems to put all the funky-shaped historical pieces together quite so well...

[尼古拉前执事]

Chrysostomos, it was good what you wrote. I haven't read the link yet as I've been super busy. But thank you for the link. I will get to it before the class.

[尼古拉前执事]

I found another interesting link on this, I'd love people to check it out and tell me what you think of this: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/54h/54h010.html