Inquiring into "Traditional" Orthodoxy

[JamesR]

Hello everyone. Well, as you know, I converted to Orthodoxy about two years ago against my parents' wishes, and it's been a rough ride, and, things are getting a bit rougher. I'm kind of conflicted. Right now I attend an OCA parish, and I'm somewhat disturbed by ecumenism. My Priest communes this one man who openly attends and communes at Oriental Orthodox Churches as well, and while I don't fully know the situation between the EO and OO, I am kinda disturbed about it. World Orthodoxy seems to have a lot of problems, and I'd seriously consider Traditional Orthodoxy. But here is my main problem and drawback; it is SOOO small compared to World Orthodoxy!

It's just, if this is the true faith, then wouldn't it be at least a little bit bigger, easier to access and spread around the world? I mean, I don't see the universal catholicity in Traditional Orthodoxy at all. It just seems like a reeeeally tiny, miniscule group of Orthodox Churches that are very confined to particular areas. I just feel like if it were the true faith, then it would be bigger, more accessible and catholic in nature. If it's the true faith, then why is it virtually invisible on a worldwide scale? How come God has allowed His Church to become so confined, tiny and out of touch with the world. It would almost seem like He has allowed the entire world to perish by not giving His Church the ability to spread everywhere. I'm perfectly openminded to any answers that anyone may want to give to me on behalf of my inquiry, and I mean no disrespect with this at all.

[frphoti]

James,

God bless you for searching.

I am going to generalize a bit.

Numbers have never had anything to do with the truth of a matter. Yes, we are small, but part of why we are small is because here in America, there are few who actively seek out the truth and do something about it. When they see all these (bad) things the "World" Orthodox are doing, most people just shut up. There tends to be a "don't question your hierarchs" mindset among people that keeps them where they are no matter how much heresy is in their church. Heresy and communion is top-down; if your hierarch is a heretic and you receive communion through him (his presbyters are giving it out in his name) you are saying that you have the same faith as him. For a select few (again, here in America) this is too much, and they correctly flee from those heretical hierarchs and find True Orthodox ones.

We know we are small here, especially on the West Coast. These are the days of Noah(Mt. 24:37). Right is wrong, good is bad, dark is light. In the times of St. Maximus the Confessor, he was likely the only confessing person in the Eastern Church, and at one time was apparently the ONLY confessing Christian willing to say that all the current hierarchs of his time were heretics. There are many good orthodox people who cannot make the jump out of fear and out of appearances. They too see our small size and run the other way.

We are out of touch -with The World. We have chosen to make Christ and the truth of His Gospel the focus of our lives. Many others in the main-line Orthodox churches have done so as well, but as I said they cannot make the jump. The world is a crazy, crazy place and we choose to make the Church our heavenly homeland rather than to "fit in". If we have to be persecuted then we will ( and are! ) endure for the sake of the True Gospel. There is only One Church, which has all the revealed truth that Christ gave to His Apostles and was delivered once to the saints. Christ and His Apostles warned us about false shepherds, and we see them. We were not warned in order to do nothing about it; we were warned so that we would stay away.

This is not historically new, as I gave you just one example with St. Maximus. The Church has been spread throughout the world, and the True Church has its remnants around. They are underground in some areas (again, with historical precedent) and above in others. They are large in numbers in some locales, but smaller in others. This does not negate the Truth of the Orthodox Church. After all, wasn't the Church still True even when it was only in a handful of communities on the East Coast, and in a few people in Alaska a couple hundred years ago in the time of St. Herman? Wasn't the faith True when it was only in a few people such as the Theotokos and the Apostles?

As I said, we are in historically precedented times as far as our size. What is unprecedented is the heresy of Ecumenism, which teaches that the only truth is there is no truth at all. Every heresy in the past proclaimed their truth to be THE truth against all others. This heresy stirs people's hearts and their emotions, and these emotions blind them to an objective view of what is right.

The Truth of Christ is more than numbers. God grant you wisdom to see what is right and do what is God-pleasing. Pray for us all, and for all those who are seeking the True faith. I believe that it will only get more difficult soon. Do what you can, as God allows, and may He bless you.

[Jean-Serge]

Hello JamesR,

Well I think being right and numerous are too different thing. In secular matter, I think that a French writer, maybe Hugo, said "The minority is always right". If we come back to the religious aspect, we must take into account that although the church calls everybody to join it, not everybody answer the call; people are free to do what they want and God lets them free. Don't forget that this is a spiritual battle and that the Evil also work to deceive people. So we may preach Christ everywhere, to everyone, but it does not mean everybody will answer positively. There is also the open question of Christ saying: "When the Son of Man will come, will he find the faith?". I am not implying at all that these are the last times (which I don't think by the way).

Historically speaking, the Church has known periods of growth, of decline and so on. In 33, you had only some 1,000 maybe, which means almost nothing. It grew very slowly... Simply imagine that during most part of human history most people in Asia, Africa, and Americas (that had not been discovered) did not have the basic idea of what was christianism and even the knowledge of it. All these people put together were the majority of human kind, I think.

If we take the case of true orthodox now, there are other things to consider. In Greece, true orthodoxy was persecuted and thus head other priorities to evangelize the whole world. The same in Russia, where up to now, there are still forms of persecutions just like in the case of ROAC.

[JamesR]

So hypothetically, if I wanted to convert to Traditional Orthodoxy, what would be the best thing to do? The closest Traditional parish is like 8 hours away from me. (I live in NorCal), and seeing that I'm only 17, I don't have the option to move to an area that has one. In fact, I would extend this question to everyone. What is the entire world supposed to do? What about all of the people who want to convert or would be willing to convert, but no parishes are around them, are they condemned?

[Maria]

So hypothetically, if I wanted to convert to Traditional Orthodoxy, what would be the best thing to do? The closest Traditional parish is like 8 hours away from me. (I live in NorCal), and seeing that I'm only 17, I don't have the option to move to an area that has one. In fact, I would extend this question to everyone. What is the entire world supposed to do? What about all of the people who want to convert or would be willing to convert, but no parishes are around them, are they condemned?

Since you live in Northern California, you might be close to St. Gregory of Sinai Monastery near Kelseyville. It is not too far from Santa Rosa.

[JamesR]

So hypothetically, if I wanted to convert to Traditional Orthodoxy, what would be the best thing to do? The closest Traditional parish is like 8 hours away from me. (I live in NorCal), and seeing that I'm only 17, I don't have the option to move to an area that has one. In fact, I would extend this question to everyone. What is the entire world supposed to do? What about all of the people who want to convert or would be willing to convert, but no parishes are around them, are they condemned?

Since you live in Northern California, you might be close to St. Gregory of Sinai Monastery near Kelseyville. It is not too far from Santa Rosa.

Still about 3 hours away I live in the Bay Area

[Barbara]

Aha ! So you are within easy reach [by bus even if parents will not give you the car !]
of our RTOC St John of San Francisco parish !

There are Vigils and LIturgies only one weekend a month.
Fr Oleg Gritsenko was here for Annunciation / Sunday of The Cross
so probably not til Pascha [Russian Easter as in Rimsky-Korsakov's famous Russian Easter Overture ]
will a priest be back again.

It's A VERY NICE community. Even a famous Professor attends once in awhile [though not actually a member but is well
known as an authority on Soviet Union and Russian history].

There was a young man there last weekend, so there ARE youth, though most are understandably older parishioners because
they came from the Russian emigration which KNEW not to get involved with the MP, any way, any how.

But if you start attending, then mysteriously, it will cause more youth to show !