Ethnic Dancing: TOCs vs World Orthodoxy

DIscussion and News concerning Orthodox Churches in communion with those who have fallen into the heresies of Ecumenism, Renovationism, Sergianism, and Modernism, or those Traditional Orthodox Churches who are now involved with Name-Worshiping, or vagante jurisdictions. All Forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.


User avatar
Maria
Archon
Posts: 8428
Joined: Fri 11 June 2004 8:39 pm
Faith: True Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOC
Location: USA

Ethnic Dancing: TOCs vs World Orthodoxy

Post by Maria »

I have never seen parishioners in the GOC-AB Kallinikos parishes do any Greek dancing or hold a parish Greek festival where Greek dancing is done out under the stars at night, so is traditional Greek or ethnic dancing forbidden in the TOCs?

In World Orthodoxy, I know that Antiochian and Greek Orthodox Priests and Deacons have been instructed by their Bishops that they should not go to dance clubs or participate in ethnic dancing with parishioners. Although the clergy of the local Greek parish do start the parish festivities at the Anastasi dinner by dancing with the altar servers, these clergy members leave shortly after the dinner and dessert have been served while the parishioners remain until dawn to celebrate the Resurrection.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

User avatar
Barbara
Protoposter
Posts: 4061
Joined: Sat 29 September 2012 6:03 pm

Re: Ethnic Dancing: TOCs vs World Orthodoxy

Post by Barbara »

I don't know the answer to the original question, not being in a Greek Toc. Nor knowing anyone who is
[ except you guys ! ]

That's really important that the Greek, Antiochian clergymen are prohibited from participating in any dancing, even
traditional greek style ones.

My only recommendation would be - joking here - for the Bishops to suggest they leave after dinner, and skip dessert !
Too much baklava is no good !

User avatar
Jean-Serge
Protoposter
Posts: 1384
Joined: Fri 1 April 2005 11:04 am
Location: Paris (France)
Contact:

Re: Ethnic Dancing: TOCs vs World Orthodoxy

Post by Jean-Serge »

The question is forbidden to whom? Normally clergy should not dance at all, and even for laymen dancing is not recommended and definitely forbidden in some occasions like weddings (see canons and the homily of Saint Nicodemus the Hagiorithe in Christian morality on the subject) and to celebrate religious feast (wedding by the way is a religious feast). Normally clergy should leave the wedding when dancing begin. Moreover the church is there for deification and teaching, which are the highest priorities (all the more since the degree of ignorance of orthodox is quite high), and a whole night dedicated to prayer with an real agripny would be more interesting than a dancing, but strangely, you'll get less people...

Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.

User avatar
Barbara
Protoposter
Posts: 4061
Joined: Sat 29 September 2012 6:03 pm

Re: Ethnic Dancing: TOCs vs World Orthodoxy

Post by Barbara »

What is "agripny" ?

Yes, I AGREE with you !

I don't understand WHY people NEED all these props to "have fun" at an event !

A wedding IS a very deep religious ceremony. One would assume that whatever happened on the wedding day
would set the stage for the entire life.

So, to have revelry and silliness present would be a bad start.

User avatar
Jean-Serge
Protoposter
Posts: 1384
Joined: Fri 1 April 2005 11:04 am
Location: Paris (France)
Contact:

Re: Ethnic Dancing: TOCs vs World Orthodoxy

Post by Jean-Serge »

An agrypny (agrypnie in French) is a reall all-night vigil, not like the shortened all-night vigil that last 2-3 hours, but the real one starting with vespers around 8 PM and ending the day after with liturgy around 4AM-6AM. I went at one in 2005 for Saint Sabbas, in the "Russian" cathedral Saint Alexander Nevsky in 2004 I think, and it was a really great litugical moment. All the psalms of the cathisms are read, the life of the saint is also read in its entirety etc. You also eat bread and drink wine during it after the vespers, as the last meal before the communion that will take place the day after with the liturgy. Everything in general is chanted and due to the length 2 choirs are needed in general. The church was not crowded even if the day after was a non working day; there were people from 8 to 40 y.o. I would say at most 50 people with the celebrants, choir etc.These all-night vigils are more common in Greece, and in monasteries. I do really miss one...

Unfortunately, I guess such event would gather less faithfuls than dancing. :(

Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.

User avatar
Barbara
Protoposter
Posts: 4061
Joined: Sat 29 September 2012 6:03 pm

Re: Ethnic Dancing: TOCs vs World Orthodoxy

Post by Barbara »

That sounds incredible !
I wish I could attend one.

You were at the Rue Daru, then, for this St Savva agripny ?

User avatar
Jean-Serge
Protoposter
Posts: 1384
Joined: Fri 1 April 2005 11:04 am
Location: Paris (France)
Contact:

Re: Ethnic Dancing: TOCs vs World Orthodoxy

Post by Jean-Serge »

Yes, I remember this. I talked about this in this forum at this link. Well there were finally about 20 persons about what I could observe then.

http://www.euphrosynoscafe.com/forum/vi ... 129#p27129

Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.

Post Reply