I think my commentary was unnoticed : "The other point is that the other one can convert without faith only to please you and marry you."
Suppose that you state a common faith is necessary and a prequisite for you. The lady might accept to convert to your faith not because she believes but because she is so much in love and does not want to lose you. Such cases do exist. What is the value of such conversion? I would say none.
Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.
Forgive me for any offense, Joanna.
Jean-Serge wrote:I think my commentary was unnoticed : "The other point is that the other one can convert without faith only to please you and marry you."
Suppose that you state a common faith is necessary and a prequisite for you. The lady might accept to convert to your faith not because she believes but because she is so much in love and does not want to lose you. Such cases do exist. What is the value of such conversion? I would say none.
I think you're quite right that those kinds of conversions can be unstable. But cases also exist of someone converting for the sake of marriage and later growing in the faith, even becoming a saint (St Elizabeth the New Martyr). I just don't think it's appropriate to make blanket statements like "all conversions for sake of marriage will fail", since that's just not true. But you are right to counsel caution, especially if you are dating someone non-Orthodox.
I think it depends on one's own strength of faith. Since James is still struggling to live an Orthodox life, it would probably be less advisable to start seeing non-Orthodox women, since he could more easily be led astray. So I would counsel him to focus on dating Orthodox women, who he can meet through church or Orthodox fellowships.
I completely agree with Joanna that patience is necessary. The fact that James has all these urges now does not mean he should neglect all the other important considerations that go into marriage. I wanted to give him a kind of timeline or plan so that he could feel more confident that God would not abandon him to a single life that he was not suited for, but that a suitable wife will come along provided he has faith and exercises patience and thrift and all the other virtues.
It is true that in pre-modern times men and women married earlier on average. At the same time, life in general was simpler but also more full of uncertainty: one never knew if one would have enough food to eat, if one would die in childbirth, if one's child would survive infancy etc. These days, getting a good job guarantees a much greater degree of certainty and freedom from want, but this requires a longer period of adolescence while one acquires all the life skills necessary for complicated modern life. I thought this perspective would help illustrate and explain the situation James and other young people today face.
At the same time, the patience required must itself be Providential. Joanna is quite right that marriage is not "legalized lust". On the one hand St Paul says "better to marry than to burn (with passion)", so we recognize that we have urges that, for most of us, need a safe outlet, which is provided in marriage. On the other hand, sexual desire, though a blameless passion in itself, must be controlled, and this goes for both the married and the single life (e.g. even within marriage, we avoid relations during fasts). So one must learn to exercise restraint before entering into the married state.
Also, even in the "old days", while people married earlier on average, they didn't marry right when puberty began for the most part, so learning to control sexual desire before marriage has always been a necessary part of growing up for Christian youths.
Learning to master your passions will also help you not to see other women just as objects for your own relief, but as other human beings that you must love and care for. I think Joanna makes a good point on this. I'm not sure it necessarily takes 2 whole years, but it does take time. An Orthodox environment will be ideal for getting to know an Orthodox woman safely. For instance, if you meet someone nice at church, ask to come over to her house when her parents are there.
I hope this makes sense.
The new martyr Saint Elizabeth in fact did not convert while marrying but later when she was convinced. The last Tsarina converted while marrying but it seems that since the beginning he was convinced. I talked about fake conversions because it is common for men willing to marry muslim ladies. So the topic is not easy at all.
Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.
Jean-Serge wrote:The new martyr Saint Elizabeth in fact did not convert while marrying but later when she was convinced. The last Tsarina converted while marrying but it seems that since the beginning he was convinced. I talked about fake conversions because it is common for men willing to marry muslim ladies. So the topic is not easy at all.
Thank you for the correction!