Doctrinal Peculiarities In the Book of Tobit

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Justin Kissel

Doctrinal Peculiarities In the Book of Tobit

Post by Justin Kissel »

The book of Tobit is my favorite OT book, but I've gotta admit that it has a lot in there that seems very peculiar. Some of it deals with interpretation of a seemingly plain passage, while other passages I just don't get at all. If y'all would like to discuss some of the stuff in it, I'd love to hear what you all think. Anyway, how about I throw out something and if anyone's up for a discussion on this book, throw your 2 cents in...

For no pagan nation possesses good counsel, but the Lord himself gives all good things. - Tob. 4:17

This verse seems interesting on a number of counts. God is obviously the source of all goodness (Matt. 19:17; James 1:17; Ps. 16:2), but we don't see this affirmed as much in Scripture as we might think it would be. That in itself makes this an important verse. But the verse also seems to say that outside the Jewish nation, there is no "good counsel," which would obviously be false if we were to take it literally. (Jaroslav Pelikan goes over the issue of truth outside Judaism/Christianity pretty well in the first volume of his five volume work on the Catholic Tradition.)

I'd like to make a suggestion for understanding this passage, let me know how far off base you think I am. I suggest we view the verse typologically. The type is "Israel and the other nations," and I think the antitype would be "The [Orthodox] Church and the other [so-called Christian] churches". It would have been wrong to say that no one except Israel had any truth, but certainly Israel was God's chosen method of bringing His will about, and Israel was the protector of God's revelation, and the instrument of God's grace. All the other nations had, at best, a pale, pieced-together understanding of what Israel knew (or should have known). This, then, anticipates God's Israel in the latter days: the Church. Today the Church is the protector of God's revelation, the instrument of his grace, etc. And in the same way, those outside the Church can only have a pale, pieced-together understanding of the truth. God gives all good things, and chooses the majority of the time to work through his theanthropic body on earth, the Church: this is how it was in former times with the literal-ethnic Israel as well.

Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

Well we don't have to start with something so controversial! Lol. How about a discussion on the Angel Raphael's deception (regarding his identity): was it a righteous lie or only a lesser-but-necessary evil? Anyone? :)

Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

I'm still interested if anyone wants to discuss it :)

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Post by 尼古拉前执事 »

I have often heard that the story is a parable and Raphael did not truly lie.

Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

Do you remember anyone (or anywhere) in particular that said that? :) I must admit though that, unlike 6 months ago, I no longer have any interest in debating whether saints or angels can and do lie. This seems to be a subject where people won't change their minds no matter how much evidence you show to them (e.g., you can show them a saint telling a lie every day for a month to cover up for someone elses sin and they will still say that saints don't lie. shrugs :) ). I am still interested in discussing things peculiar to the book of Tobit generally, though. :) I use to have a list of things I thought were a bit different, if anyone is interested in discussing anything in the book.

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Post by 尼古拉前执事 »

I will try to remember! Please do post the list, it would be educational!

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Post by Justin Kissel »

Please don't take my last post as meaning that I wouldn't read anything you posted about Raphael. :)

And I seem to have erased my list since it's no longer on my hard drive. So, unless I can find it on floppy tonight, I'll have to re-read the book. Yay! :mrgreen: My favorite OT book.

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