Why are the True Orthodox so divided? No Polemics Please

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Maria
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Why are the True Orthodox so divided? No Polemics Please

Post by Maria »

Several inquirers into True Orthodoxy have become discouraged, so they have sent me emails about their frustrations and inabilities to locate a True Orthodox Church near them.

They look at the True Orthodox, see all the different varieties and flavors, and ask, "Why are the True Orthodox so divided?"

Perhaps we can look at this question from another perspective:

Did the original Church founded by Christ, guided by the Holy Spirit, and ruled by the Twelve Apostles and St. Paul ever experience division?

Absolutely! Even Christ warned His Apostles the day before He was crucified, that they would be torn asunder, deceived by one of their own, and persecuted. In addition, we read about this deception, division, and dissension in the Acts of the Apostles and in the writings of St. Paul.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

jgress
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Re: Why are the True Orthodox so divided? No Polemics Please

Post by jgress »

It's certainly difficult. I think for an inquirer the issue should be primarily the faith: which church holds the true faith unadulterated? That would include most of the jurisdictions calling themselves True Orthodox. As for the issues that still divide us, they are not dogmatic in nature, but rather involve the administrative aspects of Church organization. E.g. my church's difference with the Matthewites concerns the canonical legitimacy of our bishops versus theirs. But we agree in all matters of the faith, e.g. we both agree that all heretics are outside the Church and without grace, including the ecumenists.

While I don't want to discourage study of the history of the GOC, and while I think it's important to respect the canons regulating church administration, I think we should put to rest the notion that, if an inquirer ends up in the "wrong" True Orthodox jurisdiction, he will certainly be cut off from God. I think God respects the limits on our understanding of recent church events and the difficulty of determining who is "right". What I believe God does expect is that we recognize the true faith and discern the difference between bishops that uphold the faith and bishops that overthrow it.

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Priest Antonios
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Re: Why are the True Orthodox so divided? No Polemics Please

Post by Priest Antonios »

jgress wrote:

What I believe God does expect is that we recognize the true faith and discern the difference between bishops that uphold the faith and bishops that overthrow it.

Beautifully said Doctor.

jgress
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Re: Why are the True Orthodox so divided? No Polemics Please

Post by jgress »

Priest Antonios wrote:
jgress wrote:

What I believe God does expect is that we recognize the true faith and discern the difference between bishops that uphold the faith and bishops that overthrow it.

Beautifully said Doctor.

Thank you. I was worried some would construe me as advocating "Old Calendar ecumenism"! I guess I would put it like this: a schism can result in separation from the Church even without affecting matters of faith. However, such a schism doesn't necessarily result in such separation: there are cases from Church history where saints are found on both sides of such a division. So schism shouldn't be taken lightly, on the one hand, and one should, to the best of one's ability, discern which jurisdiction is canonical. On the other hand, a failure to determine which jurisdiction is canonical beyond all doubt should not lead one to despair. At that point, I think it's all right to trust in God's mercy.

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Maria
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Re: Why are the True Orthodox so divided? No Polemics Please

Post by Maria »

I agree with Fr. Antonios.

Wonderful posts, Jonathan.

Here is another thought:

The True Orthodox are fractured because of the times we live in.

Communists and other agent provocateurs sometimes will infiltrate these groups causing them much harm.

Most of these catacomb churches were small in order to avoid detection by KGB agents, "canonical" Orthodox under the EP and MP who tried to get them arrested, and freemasons who hated them.

The following link is to an excellent biography of one of our True Orthodox saints, who suffered much for the True Church and who worked many miracles: St. Glicherie of Romania.

http://hotca.org/orthodoxy/lives-of-sai ... of-romania

This is an inspiring story if you can read through all the persecution that this holy man of God had to endure.
In spite of all this ill treatment, he did not hate anyone, but prayed for the salvation of all, even his enemies.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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Maria
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Re: Why are the True Orthodox so divided? No Polemics Please

Post by Maria »

In reading the histories of the various Russian True Orthodox Catacomb Churches formed under the communists, Matthewites, the Synod of Milan, and the GOC-K, I have begun to realize why there is a division.

Under communism, catacomb Orthodox Christian bishop were often secretly ordained. They simply could not have open consecrations. Sometimes records were kept, but sometimes no records were kept in fear that the Soviet spies or freemasons would retaliate or go in search of these newly consecrated bishops and their consecrators. Those records that were kept were often destroyed as communists bombed and destroyed churches or places of residence. Records were also buried to preserve them, but then construction by the communists often destroyed these hiding places.

When the Iron Curtain fell, these True Orthodox were still worshiping in secret since they were not under the politically correct Moscow Patriarchate (MP). When they obtained permits to build churches and tried to operate in public, their vestments, liturgical books, relics and churches were often seized by the MP-friendly police who turned all these assets over to the MP.

When these various catacomb churches tried to join other catacomb True Orthodox Churches, with no records, they had to submit to repeated ordinations and consecrations to create valid lines of apostolic succession with the parishioners required to undergo additional catechumenates and then be baptized or chrismated again.

Every time one small group joined a larger group, these ceremonies were repeated, meaning that the faithful could not receive the Holy Mysteries until their status was once again rectified through chrismation or another baptism. It gets tiring.

Some of these catacomb True Orthodox Churches have refused to go this route of repeated baptisms, chrismations, ordinations, and consecrations in order to create the appearance of legitimacy only to discover that another larger group still considered them to be "uncanonical."

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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khomes
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Re: Why are the True Orthodox so divided? No Polemics Please

Post by khomes »

This is my wife's and my own main concern when looking at the True Orthodox Churches. We see divisions and sometime the mentaility of "i dont like you, im joining/making my own church". My wife says, to her, it seems like Orthodox protestantism. This is a very hard aspect for us to accept. Any advice ir suggestions. Any help would be appriciated

I was baptised into the Genuine Orthodox Church with the name Matthew on March 1 2016

"Preserve my children: patience, compassion, wisdom, gentleness, humility, silence, fasting, prayer. Prayer gives humility, modesty, and obedience. He who keeps these reasons that lead to the imitation of Christ, provides for the salvation of his immortal soul; he who despises them, despises his own salvation."
- St. Matthew the New Confessor

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