Crossing oneself

[Handmaiden50]

I'm just curious ~ I was recently at a class at church and, when we ended, Father prayed a blessing over us. As Father was still in the midst of praying I noticed someone cross themselves 3 times. (This is a Greek parish) I waited until Father was finished praying before crossing myself once. Does the matter of crossing oneself vary from individual to individual (when to, the number of times, etc.) and is according to one's personal piety?

[Maria]

I'm just curious ~ I was recently at a class at church and, when we ended, Father prayed a blessing over us. As Father was still in the midst of praying I noticed someone cross themselves 3 times. (This is a Greek parish) I waited until Father was finished praying before crossing myself once. Does the matter of crossing oneself vary from individual to individual (when to, the number of times, etc.) and is according to one's personal piety?

At the Trisagion during the Divine Liturgy, people cross themselves three to five times.

• Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us.
• Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us.
• Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us.
• Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit,
  Both now and ever and unto the ages of ages. Amen.
  Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us.
  Dynamis! (Strongly)
• Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us.

As a result, some folks always cross themselves three times.

[jgress]

In my experience, most parishioners are not intimately familiar with the rules about how many crosses and bows or prostrations are to be performed at the specified times. I agree that the Greeks seem particularly fond of the threefold cross, often extending to many more times, though they also have a tendency to just wave their hands over their breast. The Russians seem to perform their crosses more punctiliously, touching each shoulder and the abdomen in a very grand and ostentatious manner, and always bowing deeply afterwards. If the Greeks bow at all, they for some reason start bowing before they start signing themselves. At least, this is from my own experiences and observations.

[Maria]

In my experience, most parishioners are not intimately familiar with the rules about how many crosses and bows or prostrations are to be performed at the specified times. I agree that the Greeks seem particularly fond of the threefold cross, often extending to many more times, though they also have a tendency to just wave their hands over their breast. The Russians seem to perform their crosses more punctiliously, touching each shoulder and the abdomen in a very grand and ostentatious manner, and always bowing deeply afterwards. If the Greeks bow at all, they for some reason start bowing before they start signing themselves. At least, this is from my own experiences and observations.

In every Greek Orthodox Church I have been in, the priests were a little irritated at the yiayias who would "wave away the flies" when they should be crossing themselves properly. In catechism, retreats, and Bible classes, the Greek Orthodox priests would tell the parishioners to be bold when they make the Sign of the Cross, and not to be ashamed of Christ and the Holy Cross.

And yes, the Greek monastics would bow first, touch the ground, then cross themselves as they arose, while the Russians cross themselves, and then bow deeply touching the floor, then they arise quickly and repeat the process two more times.

Whenever I visited a Russian or Greek Orthodox Church, the priest usually knew which church I attended just from the way I crossed myself.

[Agios_Irineos]

There are not hard and fast rules about when and how many times. It is often very individual and really, nobody will look at you askance if you cross yourself when they don't. I agree with the previous commenters who say "Be Bold". Bold is not ostentatios, but making the sign of the cross should never be done perfunctorily.

It is fairly standard jurisdiction to jurisdiction and tradition to tradition to cross yourself when the Holy Trinity is invoked. That is the most common time when most people will be together in crossing themselves. I've been in parishes where people cross themselves with every Lord Have Mercy in a litany. Others may cross themselves if a particular prayer in the litany has particular meaning to them. For example when we pray for the armed forces, a parent with a child who is serving may cross themselves. Someone going on a trip in the upcoming week may cross themselves when we pray for travelers. These practices aren't "right" or "wrong."

As you attend liturgies, this will all become more comfortable and familiar to you. Don't feel that you've made a mistake if you don't cross yourself when somebody else does. They may just have a personal interest that moves them to make the sign of the cross at that time.

[Handmaiden50]

Sorry for leaving you all hanging on this topic. I've not been myself for the past few days.

Anyway, Maria, you comment about "waving away flies" made me laugh. I am one who is very slow and methodical about things and this is reflected in how I participate in liturgy and in how I'm crossing myself.

[jgress]

Sorry for leaving you all hanging on this topic. I've not been myself for the past few days.

Anyway, Maria, you comment about "waving away flies" made me laugh. I am one who is very slow and methodical about things and this is reflected in how I participate in liturgy and in how I'm crossing myself.

That's good. You shouldn't follow those who just swat the flies! I suppose by ostentatious I was thinking of some who touch each shoulder with a little flourish of the wrist, which kind of strikes me as unnecessary, but it could just be because I'm so used to slovenly Greek ways.