Beware World Orthodox Elders Who Reject Old Calendarists

DIscussion and News concerning Orthodox Churches in communion with those who have fallen into the heresies of Ecumenism, Renovationism, Sergianism, and Modernism, or those Traditional Orthodox Churches who are now involved with Name-Worshiping, or vagante jurisdictions. All Forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.


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NotChrysostomYet
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Re: Beware World Orthodox Elders Who Reject Old Calendarists

Post by NotChrysostomYet »

Maria wrote:
Justice wrote:

The World Orthodox "elder" Epiphaneos Theodoropoulos has supposedly had a "revelation" proving that the Traditional Orthodox Church is wrong. If you want to read about his "revelation" I'll give the link: http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2010/02 ... c-old.html

Do not trust John Sanidopoulos.

He is hard line World Orthodox.

And do not trust private revelations as they can be of the devil.
Even signs and wonders can be from the devil. One must learn to discern.

Yes, Maria is right to distrust private revelations. I know I do. (Though, it should be noted, the linked article is a letter explaining the writer's position, not a private "revelation" as Justice claimed).

That being said, I don't think it is good to dismiss something such as this because of the messenger. And this case, the messenger is being dismissed not because the messenger was of low moral character, but simply because he was not in the "in-group"!

I must find myself in agreement with this quote:

What is a heresy, dear Fr. Nicodemos? It is an adulteration of the Faith! But what is an adulteration of the Faith? Is it the breaching of Dogmas? That too is an adulteration of the Faith, but it is not only that. An adulteration of the Faith is also the elevating to the status of a Dogma of the Faith those things that are not. That is to say, if someone were to render a secondary thing, even if a good one, as a Dogma of the Faith, as a condition for salvation, then that someone automatically becomes a he-re-tic!

During my time on this forum I believe that I have demonstrated my sympathy to the Old Calendarist movement, even if I myself am not one of them. I am also very sympathetic towards the Old Believers. Yet, why do I not become one? Because ultimately both groups have done the above: rendered something secondary to be of importance that they are not.

Additionally, it is worth noting that in the case of both the Old Believers and the Old Calendarists, they are in schism due to something changing in the Church - even though the thing that changed has historically changed before! For most of the early history of the Church, various areas were using different calendars, up to even the sixth century. Indeed, when we were still in communion with the Copts and the Armenians and all the other Christians outside of Imperial Roman territory, there was always at least one section of the church which remained in full communion with us that had a completely different calendar. The English-Irish even celebrated Pascha on a different day than everyone else up until the Synod of Whitby in 664 A.D., and the English-Irish tradition only got changed because the British bishops present argued that Rome held supreme authority - one of the earliest recorded incidents where this occurred. Meanwhile the Old Believers are in schism over the sign of the cross being changed from two fingers to three, which originally was traced in a plus sign over the forehead, lips, and chest, as the Latins still do before the reading of the gospel.

So please, deal with the actual content of the letter instead of dismissing it out of hand due to the messenger not being affiliated with the "in-group". It's not intellectually honest.

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Maria
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Re: Beware World Orthodox Elders Who Reject Old Calendarists

Post by Maria »

Dear NCY,

You cannot proselytize on this board for the New Calendarists and call the True Orthodox schismatic, but that you have done.

This is a warning not to do this in the future or you will be issued a formal board warning.

Maria,
Administrator

Please read this essay on the Old Calendar posted at hotca.org
http://hotca.org/orthodoxy/orthodox-awa ... r-question

The Orthodox Christian Church has declared the Papal Calendar as heretical not once, but several times.

The current New Calendar being used by the EP is a modified Papal Calendar, the only difference being that it does not observe the Roman Pascalion. However, during the first several years after 1924, with the unilateral imposition of the New Calendar, when the Roman calculation for Easter was imposed on the Orthodox, the Holy Fire was not witnessed. Therefore Orthodox monastics and faithful rebelled, so that the Roman date for calculating Easter was no longer used. Nevertheless, all the saint's feast days (not connected with Pascha) have been altered.

One New Calendar bishop of Greece was struck dead because he refused to honor the proper feast day of St. Spyridon on December 25, but instead honored the Nativity of Christ. Even though he had been warned by a vision of St. Spyridon and told some of his close advisors of this fact, he ignored this warning, and was found dead shortly afterwards.

Although the imposition of the New Papal Calendar was the rallying point of the Old Calendarists, this was not the only issue, as Modernism and Ecumenism were also being promoted by the heretical Ecumenical Patriarch. In fact, the reason for the calendar change was to enable the Orthodox Christians to celebrate Christmas and Easter with the Roman Catholics and Protestants. While a common date of Easter has not yet been accomplished by the Ecumenists because they had to take a step backwards in their scheme, a common date of Christmas has been observed by the Ecumenists since 1924.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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Re: Beware World Orthodox Elders Who Reject Old Calendarists

Post by Justice »

First off, let me apologize for my wording of my post above. It could have been much better.

As for your accusations about the calendar change, I want to correct you about the calendar schism. The Old calendar or Julian calendar was decided at the first ecumenical council, as almost everyone in the ancient world was using this calendar. The Gregorian calendar was implemented in an unorthodox way without the approval of the church. It was only put into place to get the Orthodox Church closer to the Roman Catholics.

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NotChrysostomYet
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Re: Beware World Orthodox Elders Who Reject Old Calendarists

Post by NotChrysostomYet »

Justice wrote:

First off, let me apologize for my wording of my post above. It could have been much better.

As for your accusations about the calendar change, I want to correct you about the calendar schism. The Old calendar or Julian calendar was decided at the first ecumenical council, as almost everyone in the ancient world was using this calendar. The Gregorian calendar was implemented in an unorthodox way without the approval of the church. It was only put into place to get the Orthodox Church closer to the Roman Catholics.

No problem, you're forgiven.

Yes, the Julian calendar was adopted at the first ecumenical council, but it still wasn't until 664 A.D. that everyone in the Orthodox Church that was in communion with each other were on the same calendar.

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Re: Beware World Orthodox Elders Who Reject Old Calendarists

Post by Justice »

NotChrysostomYet wrote:
Justice wrote:

First off, let me apologize for my wording of my post above. It could have been much better.

As for your accusations about the calendar change, I want to correct you about the calendar schism. The Old calendar or Julian calendar was decided at the first ecumenical council, as almost everyone in the ancient world was using this calendar. The Gregorian calendar was implemented in an unorthodox way without the approval of the church. It was only put into place to get the Orthodox Church closer to the Roman Catholics.

No problem, you're forgiven.

Yes, the Julian calendar was adopted at the first ecumenical council, but it still wasn't until 664 A.D. that everyone in the Orthodox Church that was in communion with each other were on the same calendar.

True the first ecumenical council didn't have authority for a long time. Arianism is the best example of this as it prevailed throughout Christendom years after the first ecumenical council.

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NotChrysostomYet
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Re: Beware World Orthodox Elders Who Reject Old Calendarists

Post by NotChrysostomYet »

Maria wrote:

Dear NCY,

You cannot proselytize on this board for the New Calendarists and call the True Orthodox schismatic, but that you have done.

This is a warning not to do this in the future or you will be issued a formal board warning.

Maria,
Administrator

Please read this essay on the Old Calendar posted at hotca.org
http://hotca.org/orthodoxy/orthodox-awa ... r-question

The Orthodox Christian Church has declared the Papal Calendar as heretical not once, but several times.

The current New Calendar being used by the EP is a modified Papal Calendar, the only difference being that it does not observe the Roman Pascalion. However, during the first several years after 1924, with the unilateral imposition of the New Calendar, when the Roman calculation for Easter was imposed on the Orthodox, the Holy Fire was not witnessed. Therefore Orthodox monastics and faithful rebelled, so that the Roman date for calculating Easter was no longer used. Nevertheless, all the saint's feast days (not connected with Pascha) have been altered.

One New Calendar bishop of Greece was struck dead because he refused to honor the proper feast day of St. Spyridon on December 25, but instead honored the Nativity of Christ. Even though he had been warned by a vision of St. Spyridon and told some of his close advisors of this fact, he ignored this warning, and was found dead shortly afterwards.

Although the imposition of the New Papal Calendar was the rallying point of the Old Calendarists, this was not the only issue, as Modernism and Ecumenism were also being promoted by the heretical Ecumenical Patriarch. In fact, the reason for the calendar change was to enable the Orthodox Christians to celebrate Christmas and Easter with the Roman Catholics and Protestants. While a common date of Easter has not yet been accomplished by the Ecumenists because they had to take a step backwards in their scheme, a common date of Christmas has been observed by the Ecumenists since 1924.

Noted, I apologize.

I am not an ecumenist. This probably requires the creation of a separate thread, but I don't know why a calendar change makes someone an ecumenist. But yes, several of the ecumenical patriarchs during the 20th century were heretics.

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Re: Beware World Orthodox Elders Who Reject Old Calendarists

Post by NotChrysostomYet »

Justice wrote:
NotChrysostomYet wrote:
Justice wrote:

First off, let me apologize for my wording of my post above. It could have been much better.

As for your accusations about the calendar change, I want to correct you about the calendar schism. The Old calendar or Julian calendar was decided at the first ecumenical council, as almost everyone in the ancient world was using this calendar. The Gregorian calendar was implemented in an unorthodox way without the approval of the church. It was only put into place to get the Orthodox Church closer to the Roman Catholics.

No problem, you're forgiven.

Yes, the Julian calendar was adopted at the first ecumenical council, but it still wasn't until 664 A.D. that everyone in the Orthodox Church that was in communion with each other were on the same calendar.

True the first ecumenical council didn't have authority for a long time. Arianism is the best example of this as it prevailed throughout Christendom years after the first ecumenical council.

True, but we were in communion with Christians using different calendars until 664 A.D. We weren't in communion with Arians. But good point; councils do take awhile to implement at times, especially in some areas.

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