Coming soon - reunion of ROCOR with the Church of Russia

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

That's because there is no credible rebuttal Seraphim.

[Jakub]

Joe,

Either back up your post with something intelligent, or retract and apologize.

I am in full support of Seraphim & OOD.

james

[David1]

It is nonetheless, all the rebuttal necessary. How can one who has never experienced the sacraments of Holy Orthodoxy stand in judgement of the brethren? I hope you find the truth, life, and communion of Christ when and if you become Orthodox but from this and other posts that seem to say nothing more than "I thank Thee, God, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican." This is technically an ad hominen attack, but I am not saying it to belittle you or attack your position as catechuman in a traditional Orthodox jurisdiction. The reason I am saying this is that I have genuine concern for your soul, that in your detailed studies of twentieth century Orthodox ecclesiastical politics your life in Christ is reduced to nothing more than a quest to find out not only who is right, but more importantly from your posting habits, who is wrong. Take care lest in the zealous search for authenticity that you bypass The Church completely. I would urge you to read The Arena by St. Ignatius Branchininov and also to share your postings on this site with your spiritual father. Forgive me, but you do not speak as one who seems to be working out their own salvation in fear in trembling, but rather one who would rather stand in judgement of his brother. There is much more than an internet debate of canoncity at stake. In the end, our words on who is right and who is wrong are just that; words. We will judge ourselves by the degree to which we have loved our neighbor and I have to say I find less and less of that love every time I visit this site. It is regrettable. There are so many here who could do so much for the glory of God residing on this site, but in the end will most likely continue their time as nothing more than a group of internet curmudgeons. May God have mercy on us all!

[Joe Zollars]

Jakub,

In my opinion, sinful and unworthy though it is, the union between ROCOR/ROCA and the MP represents none other than the formation of the Church of the Antichrist. the MP was and probably still is today run by agents of the KGB, including none other than "Patriarch" Alexy himself. Thus a union without the MP recanting sergianism, ecumenism, and all its other heresies represents an agreement with those heresies.

It has been said that it is possible ROCOR and OCA will become the same body here in the states as the MP has an agreement not to expand. The very thought of this makes every bone of my body shake in fear.

Joe Zollars
Chief of sinners and Prince of simpletons

[尼古拉前执事]

The Mp has totally ignored its agreement with the MP and has expanded even adding a number of missions, so I do not think that it will make the ROCOR unite with the OCA. But one never knows. Perhaps the rumors of the OCA's autocephaly being revoked would end up being proven true. It is all a matter of speculation at this point.

[Daniel]

Thus a union without the MP recanting sergianism...

I was just recently told that they had in like 2000/2001. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

[Seraphim Reeves]

It is nonetheless, all the rebuttal necessary.

Obviously, I'm not the only one who disagrees.

How can one who has never experienced the sacraments of Holy Orthodoxy stand in judgement of the brethren?

I somehow doubt you'd be my "brother" even if I'd already arrived at the baptismal waters.

I hope you find the truth, life, and communion of Christ when and if you become Orthodox but from this and other posts that seem to say nothing more than "I thank Thee, God, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican." This is technically an ad hominen attack, but I am not saying it to belittle you or attack your position as catechuman in a traditional Orthodox jurisdiction.

Of course, this is precisely what you are doing - belittling and attacking. Don't offer false apologies to obfuscate what you're really up to.

By the grace of God, I am doing all I can. I've chosen, by His mercy, rightly, and I've put myself into the care of others. How cruel you malign me for not yet being baptized, as if such is really in my power at this point.

Oh, but you don't malign me so cruelly? Then why bring it up to begin with? Depending where you're coming from, if I were so inclined, I could say that you and I are on the same boat - unbaptized, and never having tasted the Holy Gifts (in fact, I suspect such may just be the case.) But I have no desire to make this about me, or you, or anyone chatting/arguing in this forum. You on the other hand, for want of anything intelligent to say (and obviously not liking what I'm saying) have made this personal. That is something I have no interest in doing.

Thus, say something substantial, or don't bother directing anything in my direction. Though I've been given "moderator" privileges, don't fear - I have no intention of nuking you or your posts - I refuse to do anything like this (even if possibly justified) if it is in my regard or for my own sake.

The reason I am saying this is that I have genuine concern for your soul, that in your detailed studies of twentieth century Orthodox ecclesiastical politics your life in Christ is reduced to nothing more than a quest to find out not only who is right, but more importantly from your posting habits, who is wrong.

I suspect if I limited such "negative" posts to papism, the jehovah's witnesses, etc., I wouldn't be hearing these "kind words" from your benevolence.

Forgive me, but you do not speak as one who seems to be working out their own salvation in fear in trembling, but rather one who would rather stand in judgement of his brother.

You have said it. I don't claim any of your kreskin-like powers at determing the deep yearnings/hidden failures of anyone.

There is much more than an internet debate of canoncity at stake. In the end, our words on who is right and who is wrong are just that; words. We will judge ourselves by the degree to which we have loved our neighbor and I have to say I find less and less of that love every time I visit this site. It is regrettable. There are so many here who could do so much for the glory of God residing on this site, but in the end will most likely continue their time as nothing more than a group of internet curmudgeons. May God have mercy on us all!

What you say sounds sweet, but it is the devil's speech - genuine love can never preclude a differentiation between good and evil, or allow for an ambivilance towards the soul destroying poison being marketed in general as "Christianity", and more narrowly (and twice as deceptively) "Orthodoxy." If such were not a ever topical, urgent topic of discussion, I don't think anyone would be bringing it up. It's precisely because we live in the midst of so much fakery that it is so often discussed. Particularly when so many here, have had to suffer to one extent or another at the hands of said fakers.

Granted, we're all sinners here. Without smacking of false humility, I really do have a hard time believing anyone could be so wicked as myself - not because I knock over banks, or steal old ladies' purses...but because I have received so much, and do so little - because the evil that I do commit, is so conscious, so deliberate, so inexcusable. And yes, because I really do think too much of myself...and my heart is cold, and I truly do not believe, at least not as I should. I am lazy, and unprofitable. No false humility, no pious exageration.

Yet, if I offer a small defense, it is only that I do not think I'm incredibly unique in such offences, at least in kind if not degree. And if this were a basis for me to "shut up", then I scarcely think anyone should have an account here (or perhaps I'm being incredibly presumptuous)?

However, my sins, my failings, really have nothing to do with your taking exception; it's what I've materially said. You don't like it. In which case, if I'm so obviously wrong, it should be exceedingly easy for you to offer a suitable reply - having a "ready explanation" as St.Peter taught. Obviously, sneering down from some kind of assumed moral/spiritual high ground, has not moved anyone to reconsideration of their respective positions.

Seraphim