UKRAINE AUTOCEPHALY; WORLD ORTHODOXY SCHISM?

[Barbara]

Thanks for your sage observations, d9popov.
This is certainly a hot topic, so it's right that the thread was moved to the Private forum.

Is Yanukovich still on the scene ? Would he stage a comeback, and this is what Poroshenko fears ? Or some other pro-Moscow politican would run ? I surely hope that protestant gets out of office, but that a sensible person takes over and sets the right course to defuse the tensions, so everyone can get back to work. This has all been a major episode of 'drama', wouldn't you say ?

That is just treacherous of Pope Francis - after ALL the persecution of the Catholic Church in China. The sacrifices of great Bishops and Priests who suffered for remaining independent and loyal to Rome instead of to Maoist Beijing are being made meaningless by such a move when a Pope comes into accommodation with a hard-line Communist regime. He certainly is a Red Pope, if there ever was one.

[Justice]

The MP has broken communion with Constantinople.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45870939

[d9popov]

Bartholomew is misinterpreting canons and ignoring historical documents. He is trying to act like a mini-pope of the East. He claims on his website that he is the "First Without Equals." He claims that if you criticize Constantinople's neo-papism, then you do not love the Orthodox Church. He seems to compare himself to God.

The western media often enables Bartholomew's false claims. Bartholomew had close ties with the Bush and Clinton families. Despite Trump's desire for better U.S.-Russian relations (which could, possibly, be a good thing), the U.S. and Russia are fighting on many levels currently. Western articles repeat countless errors about Orthodox history.

Kirill is a servant of Putin's domestic and foreign policies. Hilarion Afeyev is wasting his great intelligence on politics and on a gradualist approach to ecumenism, rather than denouncing ecumenism, as he would do if he were truly Orthodox. We should all laugh when the pro-Putin MP or Russian media denounce the "nationalism" of Ukrainians. The Russian media denounces "Nazis" in Ukraine, because the indoctrinated Russian masses often do not know that the Soviets were sometimes (not always) as bad as the Nazis in Ukraine.

Many (not all) Ukrainians are actually clamoring for westernization (even subordination to the West), which will bring them further from traditional Orthodox piety. Kiev Patriarch Filaret Denysenko predicts that 10 bishops will leave the Moscow Patriarchate in Ukraine, that he will be elected patriarch by the three groups of bishops (10 from UOC-MP, all from UOC-KP, all from UAOC), and that his newly united church will acquire the Kiev/Kyiv Caves Lavra and the Pochaev/Pochaiv Lavra. There are up to 12,000 parish churches and 200 monasteries of the MP in Ukraine, and many will experience disagreements about with whom to affiliate. Many will leave the MP.

It is difficult to predict how much violence will occur or be avoided. Poroshenko wants a "Tomos of Autocephaly" (a frequently misused phrase) in November to boost his lagging popularity before elections next year. The MP wants to dominate "World Orthodoxy." Metropolitan Jonah (formerly OCA, now ROCOR) says that the MP still has good relations with the Roman Catholic Church. How far ROCOR has fallen into ecumenism and relativism.

Lastly, allow me state my sincere conviction that Cyprian is misguided to advocate his contradictory conspiracy theories that claim that all these rivals mentioned above (Vatican, Moscow, Kiev, and Constantinople [even Hollywood]) are pursuing a common agenda dictated by (pick one!) Zionists, or Illuminati, or "the secret society" (which one???). No. That is not how Orthodox Christians understand the world.

The saints teach that people are motivated by self-love, by selfish passions, by ego and self-assertion, by a desire for earthly power and glory. Cyprian's conspiracy theories are the opposite of an Orthodox world view, they are taken from western fantasies and fascist ideologies.

Cyprian misunderstands Saint John Chrysostom's sermons against Judaism and Judaizers. The Jewish community was thriving in Antioch and was causing some Christians to become Jews or to adopt aspects of Judaism. The saint's polemics against those who deny Christ have nothing to do with the false theory today that Jews control the world. Only Christ God is the Pantokrator, not Zionists, not even the Anti-Christ. Only Christ controls things, but He allows competing groups to pursue their sinful passions and bring disorder and violence to the world.

Cyprian also spends way too much time on Hollywood movies. These movies are decadent, but they are not full of mystical and numerological prophecies. They do not have the power of prophecy. Parts of Hollywood have an open agenda of a loosening of morals. Hollywood cannot prophecy the future.

Cyprian has a strange fascination with denying the errors of Augustine and Latin theology, with adopting Western fascist conspiracy theories, and with anti-Christian Hollywood having the gift of prophecy. Our Orthodox Christian ancestors denounced the errors of Augustine and Latin theology, they suffered greatly under western fascism, and they have always told us to ignore much of popular entertainment. Augustine's errors contributed to the Latin heresies and schism. Latin Papalism contributed to fascism. And fascism contributed to Cyprian's anti-Semitic theories. Cyprian attempts to minimize the errors of Augustine and he clearly (undeniably) adopts fascist and western anti-Semitic theories to explain complex world events. When Augustine is correct, such as some of his comments on Genesis and science, Cyprian rejects him in favor of a Protestant fundamentalist approach to Genesis. Cyprian should set aside these non-Orthodox theories imported from Western ideologies. We need to reject what our ancestors called "Latin-mindedness."

[Cyprian]

Lastly, allow me state my sincere conviction that Cyprian is misguided to advocate his contradictory conspiracy theories that claim that all these rivals mentioned above (Vatican, Moscow, Kiev, and Constantinople [even Hollywood]) are pursuing a common agenda dictated by (pick one!) Zionists, or Illuminati, or "the secret society" (which one???). No. That is not how Orthodox Christians understand the world.

My sincere conviction is that you are not Orthodox, and you are completely lacking credibility, since you slander the saints and promote ecumenist heretics such as John Romanides and their blasphemous theories. You also deliberately post disinformation on this forum, and when called on it, are unable to back up your spurious claims. For example, you spoke falsely when you claimed that some fathers treated the six days of creations as ages, and not literal days. I challenged you to cite even one Father to support your false claim, and you have presented nothing. This speaks to how disingenuous you are. You know full well that no holy fathers ever understood the creation to be millions or billions of years, but you thought you could beguile some people on this forum who are not well read in the Fathers and get them to believe that the creation of the world is millions or billions of years old.

You write:
"If you believe that the created universe is less than 10,000 years old, then it would also seem that you believe in a more rapid version of evolution from Adam than I do. Current science sees the Australian aboriginals as evolving separately from the rest of humanity for over 40,000 years."

This is precisely why you are not Orthodox, but merely a trouble-making HOCNA propagandist, seeking to promote name-worshipping. No one should listen to you or trust anything you say.

This is what the Seventh Ecumenical Council says:

THE SEVENTH GENERAL COUNCIL
THE SECOND OF NICAEA HELD A.D 787,

Session the Sixth

Epiphanius reads:—

"In the year of the world five thousand five hundred and one, Christ our God having come amongst men and having dwelt amongst them for thirty-three years and almost five months, and having accomplished the great and saving mystery of our redemption, went back again to heaven, ascending evidently thither, whence He had descended, having given charge to His Apostles to teach all things which were appointed them to teach."

This is what the Synkellos to St. Tarasios, who presided over the Seventh Ecumenical Council states in his Chronography.

The Chronography of George Synkellos (circa 810 AD)
A Byzantine Chronicle of Universal History from the Creation

A SELECTION OF CHRONOGRAPHY COMPOSED BY GEORGE THE MONK, WHO WAS THE SYNKELLOS OF TARASIOS, PATRIARCH OF CONSTANTINOPLE, FROM ADAM UP TO DIOCLETIAN

'In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." It is the beginning of the whole chronological process in the visible creation subject to time, when the heaven and the earth were brought forth through immeasurable goodness from non-being into being by God the Father through the only-begotten Son and Holy Spirit, the holy consubstantial Trinity, source of life. This is the holy first-created day of the first month called Nisan by the Hebrews and the divinely inspired scriptures, corresponding to the 25th of the Roman month of March, and the 29th of the seventh Egyptian month.' This fact is acknowledged by all our holy fathers and teachers and the holy catholic and apostolic Church. On this day also Gabriel foretold the divine conception in his salutation and greeting to the Holy Virgin. On this day also the only-begotten Son of the Father, after his ineffable incarnation from her and the complete fulfilment of the divine plan, arose from the dead; on this same holy day of the lifebringing Resurrection, the 5534th year from the creation of the universe commenced."

As everyone can readily see, you are talking Romanides heretical tripe when you speak of "Australian aboriginals as evolving separately from the rest of humanity for over 40,000 years."

The saints teach that people are motivated by self-love, by selfish passions, by ego and self-assertion, by a desire for earthly power and glory. Cyprian's conspiracy theories are the opposite of an Orthodox world view, they are taken from western fantasies and fascist ideologies.

No, the holy fathers teach that: "In the end Masonry will be poured out into one man of iniquity, the son of destruction - the Antichrist" (St. Andronik of Perm)

It is you who does not espouse an Orthodox world view. Masonry is an organized conspiracy. You obviously have never benefited from the writings of Sergei Nilus (+1929), and are therefore ignorant of all of this. Go read the writings of Sergei Nilus, whose writings were blessed by St. John of Kronstadt and the Optina elders, and read by Tsar-Martyr Nicholas II, and learn something before caviling at me.

Cyprian misunderstands Saint John Chrysostom's sermons against Judaism and Judaizers. The Jewish community was thriving in Antioch and was causing some Christians to become Jews or to adopt aspects of Judaism.

You are the one who does not understand St. John Chrysostom, nor the teachings of the Fathers. What the saint said of Judaism is as true today as it was then, and Judaism is no less Antichrist today than it was then, and Judaizing has spread all over the world.

St. Ephraim the Syrian
On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World

"Because he shall put forth an edict so that people may be circumcised according to the rite of the old law. Then the Jews shall congratulate him, because he gave them again the practice of the first covenant; then all people from everywhere shall flock together to him at the city of Jerusalem, and the holy city shall be trampled on by the nations for forty-two months, just as the holy apostle says in the Apocalypse, which become three and a half years, 1,260 days."

St. Ephraim the Syrian tells us that the Antichrist will Judaize. St. Gregory the Great, Pope of Rome, who was a couple centuries after Chrysostom, and a long ways from Antioch, says the same:

St. Gregory the Great:
"It has come to my ears that certain men of perverse spirit have sown among you some things that are wrong and opposed to the holy faith, so as to forbid any work being done on the Sabbath day. What else can I call these but preachers of Antichrist, who, when he comes, will cause the Sabbath day as well as the Lord's day to be kept free from all work. For, because he pretends to die and rise again, he wishes the Lord's day to be had in reverence; and, because he compels the people to Judaize that he may bring back the outward rite of the law, and subject the perfidy of the Jews to himself, he wishes the Sabbath to be observed."

St. Jerome
Commentary on Zechariah

"The Jews and Judaizing Christians promise themselves in the last days a rebuilding of Jerusalem, with waters going out from its midst, which flow down to both seas, a time when circumcision is to be practiced again, and sacrifices are to be offered, and all the precepts of the law are to be observed, so that the Jews do not become Christians, but Christians become Jews. On that day, they say, when Christ will be seated to reign in a Jerusalem made of gold and jewels, there will be neither idols nor diverse worship of the deity, but the Lord will be one, and the whole earth will revert back to the desert, that is, to its ancient state."

For you to act as if Judaizing was an isolated event confined to only Antioch, in St. Chrysostom's time, is once again, shows your ignorance of Church history, and why no one should pay you any attention:

Venerable Joseph the Abbot of Volokolamsk, Volotsk
Commemorated on September 9
http://pravoslavie.ru/97250.html

The saintly life of St Joseph was neither easy nor placid. In these difficult times for the Church in Russia, the Lord raised him up as a zealous defender of Orthodoxy in the struggle with heresies and churchly disputes. St Joseph exerted quite a great effort in denouncing the Judaizers, who tried to poison and distort the foundations of Russian spiritual life. Just as the holy Fathers and teachers of the Ecumenical Councils had elaborated on the teachings of Orthodoxy in responding to the ancient heresies (which contended against the Spirit, Christ, or icons), so also St Joseph was summoned forth by God to oppose the false teachings of the Judaizers and to compile the first manual of Russian Orthodox theology, his large book The Enlightener.

Even earlier, preachers from the Khazars had come to St Vladimir (July 15), trying to convert him to Judaism. But the great Baptizer of Rus repudiated the pretensions of the rabbis. After this, St Joseph writes, "the Great Russian land dwelt for five centuries in the Orthodox Faith, until the Enemy of salvation the devil, should bring the cunning Jew to the city of Novgorod."

It is obvious that we are living in the times right before the manifestation of Antichrist. Judaizing is rampant everywhere. For many centuries the popes did not enter synagogues. Only recently Pope John Paul II, Pope Benedict, and now Pope Francis started the practice of paying visits to Jewish synagogues. Pope John Paul II even invited a delegation of rabbis to come to the Vatican and bless him. See here:

Pope meets more than 100 rabbis and Jewish representatives

The heretical patriarchs have begun to do the same. Pat. Bartholomew, Pat. Irinej, etc.

Serbian Patriarch Irinei has celebrated Hannukah in a synagogue

And you would have us believe that Judaizing is not an issue relevant to today and the coming of Antichrist? You don't fool me one bit. Donald Trump boasts of his Jewish daughter and grandchildren, his predecessor Obama initiated the practice of the White House Passover Seder every year, Bush began the White House Hanukkah Party, and his wife Laura Bush was the first to bring rabbis in to "kosher" the White House kitchen. Of course Bush also held menorah lighting ceremonies in the White House every year as well.

White House Passover Seder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Hou ... over_Seder

White House Hanukkah Party
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Hou ... kkah_Party

Cyprian also spends way too much time on Hollywood movies. These movies are decadent, but they are not full of mystical and numerological prophecies. They do not have the power of prophecy.

How would you know? Either admit that you watch Hollywood movies, and we can address that, or admit that you never watch them, and therefore could have no idea what is or is not hidden in them. So which is it? Do you indulge in watching Hollywood movies or not? If not, then don't make claims about something you know absolutely nothing about.

Parts of Hollywood have an open agenda of a loosening of morals. Hollywood cannot prophecy the future.

Here is where you are spinning disinformation again, showing your cunning side, seeking to defend evil Hollywood, by implying that it is only certain parts of Hollywood that seek to demoralize humanity. It is EVERY PART of Hollywood, and every single movie studio engages in efforts to demoralize society. The fact that you claim that there are only some parts that are waging a battle against traditional societal mores, is why no one should pay you the slightest bit of attention, and you should be shamed into leaving this forum.

Cyprian has a strange fascination with denying the errors of Augustine and Latin theology,

The anonymous d9popov (troublemakers love to hide in the shadows and not divulge their real name) has a strange fascination with denying the Ecumenical Councils, which proclaim Augustine a saint among the holy fathers, and also teach that it is only a little more than 7,500 years from the creation of the universe. The moderators are clearly derelict in their duty, allowing you to repeatedly slander a saint proclaimed by the Ecumenical Councils, and to teach nonsense about "Australian aboriginals evolving separately from the rest of humanity for over 40,000 years."

So either you go, or I will leave. Since the moderators continually allow you to slander the judgments of the Ecumenical Councils, it looks like I will be the one leaving this forum.

And fascism contributed to Cyprian's anti-Semitic theories.

As is plain for everyone to see you have not had a proper Orthodox formation, and you are very ignorant of the teachings of the Holy Fathers. You do not even understand something as basic as the term "anti-Semitic" properly. You are clearly Judaized, and are pushing your Judaized agenda on this forum. Of course, your false slander, accusing me of holding "anti-Semitic theories" is empty and without merit.

It would seem that you do not properly understand the meaning of "Semitic" and hence "anti-Semitic". For the benefit of others, who might be inclined to listen, I will explain.

Semitic means to be kindred with Sem (Shem) the son of the patriarch Noah. The unbelieving Jews have no kinship with Sem, so they cannot properly be considered semitic, and to oppose their machinations against the Church is in no wise "anti-Semitic". Jesus Christ is a legitimate descendant of Sem (cf. Luke 3:36), so to be anti-Christ, like the Jews who blaspheme in their synagogues, is truly to be anti-Semitic.

You would do well to cease your empty and vain prattling, and go read the Scriptures and the interpretation of them by the Holy Fathers.

"But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? ... And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father"

Was St. John the Prodromos "anti-Semitic" when he called the unbelieving Jews a generation of vipers, warning them that their fleshly relation to Abraham availed nothing?

Was Prophet Daniel "anti-Semitic" when he reproached the two wicked elders of Israel:

"O thou seed of Canaan, and not of Judah, beauty hath deceived thee, and lust hath perverted thine heart." (Daniel 13:56)

Was Jesus Christ "anti-Semitic" when he acknowledged the fleshly relationship to Abraham of the Jews who disputed with Him, but nevertheless, called them children of the devil?"

St. John chapter 8:
"I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you."
"They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father."
"Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham."
"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do."

Cease your caviling at me and go learn from the Scriptures and the Fathers that Jews boasting of their fleshly kinship to Sem only serves to their greater condemnation.

Every time the Jews boasted of being the children of Abraham or having God as their Father, while not having the faith or works of Abraham, they are called serpents, generation of vipers, and children of the devil.

Sadly, you are Judaized and carnally minded (which is enmity against God: cf. Romans 8:7), and do not understand the basic Gospel teaching that kinship is based not upon literal fleshly descent, but by our imitation of faith, deeds and works.

"Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham." (Galatians 3:7)
"For I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham." (St. Matthew 3:9).

As anyone can read for himself, the blaspheming Jews, with their rejection of Jesus Christ, have forfeited kinship with Shem, and therefore are not to be considered "Semites". Rather, they are to be considered "anti-Semites," for opposing and seeking to take the place of Jesus Christ, who truly is kin with Sem, the son of Noah.

Blessed Theodoret of Cyrus - Commentary on Ezekiel:

"Your roots and your origins are from the land of Canaan, your father an Amorite, your mother a Hittite." Jews took pride in their kinship with Abraham; hence their saying also to the Lord in the sacred Gospels, “We are offspring of Abraham, and have never been anybody’s slaves." Blessed John the Baptist also undermines this arrogance in saying, “Brood of vipers, who showed you how to flee from the wrath to come? Produce fruit befitting repentance, then, and do not choose to say among yourselves, We have Abraham as our father. In fact, I tell you truly, God is able to raise up from these stones children to Abraham.” Just as this divinely-inspired man compared these people in their savagery and evil living to poisonous animals, so here as well the Lord God through the prophet refers to their Canaanite roots — Amorite father, Hittite mother, and in short their foreign origins — whose impiety they imitated, and duly had kinship with them, tarred with the same brush as these people on the basis of their behavior. It was quite sufficient to make an impression on them, not only on account of the lawlessness of these very nations at that time but also on account of their ignoble origins: Canaan was object of curses, and condemned to servitude by his forefather Noah. This is the one from whom you are descended, he is saying, and you have no kinship with Abraham and Shem; by repudiating their godliness you also forfeited kinship itself with them, and were completely deprived of that noble lineage.

When Augustine is correct, such as some of his comments on Genesis and science, Cyprian rejects him in favor of a Protestant fundamentalist approach to Genesis.

You are the one who denies the Ecumenical Councils and the universal teaching of the Fathers, and has an obsession with bringing up St. Augustine, while always conspicuously refusing to acknowledge his sainthood. I do not bring St. Augustine up all that often. You are the one who acts like a Protestant, thinking you get to choose your saints à la carte, and not trusting the Fathers who came before us. You are the one who rejects the clear and unambiguous teachings of the Fathers with regards to the creation.

Fr. Seraphim Rose:

"Some rather naive theologians try to say that the six days of creation can be infinitely long periods; they can correspond to these different layers, you know, the geological strata -- which, of course, is nonsense because the geological strata do not come up with six easily identifiable layers, or five or four or anything of the sort. There's a whole lot of layers; and they simply do not correspond at all to six days of creation. So that simply is a very weak kind of accomodation.

And as a matter of fact, if you look at the Holy Fathers, even though it looks as though it might be terribly fundamentalistic to say it, they do with one voice say that those days were twenty-four hours long. St. Ephraim the Syrian even divides them into two days, two periods, twelve hours each. St. Basil the Great says, the first day is called in Genesis not the “first day,” it's called “one day” because that is the one day by which God measured out the entire rest of the creation; that is, this first day which he says was twenty-four hours long is exactly the same day which is repeated in the rest of creation."

Your baseless slanders, accusing me of being beholden to a Protestant fundamentalist approach to Genesis, is, according to Fr. Seraphim Rose, a slander you are also making of the Fathers.

[d9popov]

Dearest-in-Christ Cyprian: You raise important issues and I agree with some of what you write, but not all. I believe that the teachings of Christ and the teaching of the consensus of the saints is absolutely and infallibly true. When it comes to non-dogmatic issues, I believe, like Bishop Augustine of Hippo, that we should follow the BEST human knowledge, which is not absolute or infallible. I oppose moral relativism in all its forms. But I do not agree with taking complex situations and pretending that they are black and white. (For example, it is possible for a person to know a LITTLE about Hollywood films, not a lot, and not nothing!) I believe that Saint John Cassian was correct when he wrote that Augustine's teaching on salvation was a "grievous sacrilege." I do believe sincerely that your world view has been significantly influenced by BAD aspects of western thought: Patriarch Gennadius Scholarius's Latinmindedness about Augustine; Father Seraphim Rose's and Father Damascene Christensen's readings of western creationists (which they conflate with Orthodox creationism; their references include both); and Sergei Nilus's inaccurate predictions about "Judeo-Masonry."

AUGUSTINE. Bishop Augustine of Hippo was not mentioned in the DECLARATION of the Fifth Ecumenical Council at all. So he was NOT DECLARED to be a saint by the council. He was mentioned in the PROCEEDINGS of the council (and in a Latin letter) as a bishop of the Church, along with the non-saint Theophilus of Alexandria, the persecutor of Saint John Chrysostom. Augustine wrote against several heresies. Theophilus wrote canons accepted by the Orthodox Church. Augustine and Theophilus are "holy fathers" in the sense that both were influential bishops who died within the Church and who wrote some good things. Traditionally, there are no hymns in the Menaion to Theophilus or Augustine as a saint. There have been attempts to add Augustine since the 1950s and 1960s, but that has been a controversial innovation.

CREATIONISM. The Holy Fathers are unanimous about certain teachings about Genesis and man's creation, and not unanimous about other things. There was no unanimity in Byzantium about when the world was created, but there were conflicting estimates or theories. Not one theory was ever proclaimed as dogma. Saint Basil did write that "hemera" can sometimes mean "aion." You have not explained how, after the creation of Adam, the various populations of the world (Australians, Africans, Caucasians, East Asians) came to have different DNA (genomes) and appearances (phenotypes). Evolution explains this quite well. It is not "purposeless," but it happened in some form.

SERGEI NILUS. It was inaccurate and unfair of you to accuse me of knowing nothing of the writings of Sergei Nilus. I know quite a bit about him and could write several essays about him, if I had more time. Would you answer one question: Would you admit that his predictions turned out to be PARTIALLY inaccurate and that the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" was not an authentic record of real meetings?

RETURNING TO UKRAINE. Most people, who seek the best human knowledge about the world, will conclude that the various political and religious leaders that have been mentioned --- Poroshenko, Denysenko, Maletych, Putin, Gundiaev, Berezovsky, Trump, Arhondonis --- have DIFFERENT passions and selfish interests and are TO SOME DEGREE in competition with one another?

[d9popov]

CONSTANTINOPLE, KIEV, AND MOSCOW ARE ALL WRONG ABOUT UKRAINE

The anti-Ukrainian rhetoric coming from the Russian media and some bishops (even Metropolitan Jonah, formerly OCA, now ROCOR) is nakedly political and sometimes downright racist: it denies the reality of a Ukrainian state and even uses racist slurs like "Ukraino-Nazi." More on that later. I want to focus now on Bartholomew's un-Orthodox self-worship.

BARTHOLOMEW IS A SELF-WORSHIPER. Patriarch Bartholomew openly preaches how arrogant he is ... at the same time that he preaches that he is very, very humble!!! He compares himself to God in a blasphemous and idolatrous manner and he falsely claims that Constantinople is the mother church of Orthodoxy. What about the Church that the God-Man founded in the Holy Land? Bartholomew lies about what Constantinople has recognized in the past about Russian jurisdiction over Ukraine. Dozens, perhaps hundreds, of documents over the centuries from Constantinople have recognized the church of Russia as having jurisdiction over Ukraine. I am not claiming that that should continue today, but only that Constantinople is lying about the documents. Correspondence between Constantinople and Russia for over 300 years recognized the Church of Russia as having jurisdiction over "all Rus'" or "all Russia" or "all the Russias [plural]" or even over "Great Russia [Muscovite Russia], White Russia [Belarus], and Little Russia [Ukraine]." Again, I am not advocating Ukrainian subjugation to Moscow, but it is obvious that Constantinople is blatantly lying about what it has recognized in the past.

Look at the idolatrous language that Bartholomew uses in his own self-worship, and exaggerated praise for the glory of his local church :

Excerpts from https://uocofusa.org/

[Bartholomew speaking]
we hold the primacy of honor ... the Hierarchy of the Ecumenical Patriarchate maintains a high standard, being qualified to respond to the expectations of the Church and confront the challenges of our time, because it includes in its ranks worthy Hierarchs, virtuous theologians, educated scholars, passionate missionaries, renowned authors, erudite professors and excellent preachers ... we thank ... you for your ... labors... which you offer at the sacred altar of our humble Phanar as a pleasing sacrifice ... the courtyard of the venerable Center ... the Queen of Cities ... The Ecumenical Patriarchate is, for Orthodoxy, a leaven “which leavens the whole lump” (cf. Gal. 5.9) of the Church and of history. Here, at the Great Church, we are not merely educated but become experienced in matters holy. ... We do not study theology only in theory, but live it out in practice, becoming initiated – peacefully and mystically – in how to know the unknown, see the unseen, and hear in silence the word of God that speaks in our hearts. As time unfolds, we become conscious of the fact that something magnificent is taking place, something that can only be reckoned a divine gift since our very existence is grafted onto the culture of the Mother Church, while all things are transformed and conceived as strange; the heavens are opened, new life emerges, and our existence welcomes the good change of the right hand of the Almighty ... the Mother Church assumes a leadership role in disseminating sacred scholarship and theological learning, not shying away from secular knowledge ... seeks neither worldly renown or secular power ... enjoys canonical jurisdiction and all apostolic privileges in its responsibility for safeguarding the unity and communion of the local Churches but also for the overall journey of Orthodoxy in the contemporary world and history ... as President of the body of Orthodoxy, the Ecumenical Patriarch convened the Holy and Great Council in Crete in June 2016, the greatest ecclesiastical event in recent years ... Had the Ecumenical Patriarchate and we personally surrendered to the various voices of fundamentalism and ethnophyletism ... As far as we know, no other act changing the canonical state of Kiev or revision of the condition to commemorate Constantinople has ever occurred; nor of course has there been any such change on the part of the Mother Church ceding Kiev completely to Russia ... Russia, as the one responsible for the current painful situation in Ukraine ... As the First Throne of Orthodoxy, the Ecumenical Patriarchate exercises a prophetic ministry, extending the mystery of the Catholic Church in Christ Jesus throughout the world in each era ... some people falsely believe that they can love the Orthodox Church, but not the Ecumenical Patriarchate, forgetting that it incarnates the authentic ecclesiastical ethos of Orthodoxy. “In the beginning was the Word . . . in him was life, and the life was the light of men” (John 1.1, 4). The beginning of the Orthodox Church is the Ecumenical Patriarchate; ... “in this is life, and the life is the light of the Churches.” The late Metropolitan Kyrillos of Gortyna and Arcadia, a beloved Hierarch of the Mother Church and personal friend, was right to underline that “Orthodoxy cannot exist without the Ecumenical Patriarchate.” ... The Ecumenical Patriarchate bears the responsibility of setting matters in ecclesiastical and canonical order because it alone has the canonical privilege as well as the prayer and blessing of the Church and the Ecumenical Councils to carry out this supreme and exceptional duty as a nurturing Mother and birth-giver of Churches. ... If the Ecumenical Patriarchate denies its responsibility and removes itself from the inter-Orthodox scene, then the local Churches will proceed “as sheep without a shepherd” ... All the grandeur of our Patriarchate ... the humble and selfless desire ... we feel an ardent need to address you with the words of Christ: “You are my friends” (John 15.14). “Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me” (John 15.4). The Ecumenical Patriarchate is an eruption “like the rush of a mighty wind” (Acts 2.2), which dissolved and disperses all that is false and fabricated, distorted and perverted. Consequently, all of us should be more closely connected to the First among us in order to drink from the fountain that springs abundantly from the sacred source of our pious Nation and blameless Faith

[d9popov]

I would like to see sources regarding this matter.

In addition to the documentation I cited about recent decades, there is also documentation about the non-traditionalism of most of the Ukrainian autocephalists going back to the 1940s and 1920s. The following quotation comes from an unfair, extremely biased (anti-Ukrainian) article, but it cites a very serious and informative book by Alexeev and Stavrou, about factual matters, including the secular-nationalist jobs of the autocephalist bishops, before they were bishops. Speaking of the Nazi occupation, 1941 to 1944/1945, the article states:

"Another problem with the [Ukrainian] autocephalous bishops [consecrated by Orthodox bishops in Poland] was that they were essentially political figures (the Germans noticed this very quickly, referring to them as politicians in cassocks). The head of the Ukrainian Autocephalist Church in occupied Ukraine, Polycarp Sikorsky, had been head of the chancellery of Petlyura's Council of Ministers during the Civil War; bishop John Ohienko had been Minister of Religion in Petlyura's short-lived government; Palladius Rudenko had been Minister of Finance in the same administration and Mystislav Skrypnyk (many years later to become “Patriarch”) was Petlyura’s nephew and former secretary" (http://orthochristian.com/116727.html, citing W. Alexeev and T. G. Stavrou, The Great Revival: the Russian Church under German Occupation [Minneapolis, 1976], 150, 152).

The commentary was unfair, but the facts accurate. The balanced truth is that all these Ukrainian autocephalist bishops combined a love for the Church (as they understood it) with a passion for an independent, patriotic (non-Russian) Ukrainian state.

All of these bishops became leaders of the Ukrainian autocephalists in the West: Polikarp Sikorskyi in Paris, Ivan Ohiienko in Canada, Palladii Rudenko in the US, and Mstyslav Skrypnyk with a larger Ukrainian autocephalous group in the US. Two other bishops, also in the US, Archbishop Hryhorii Ohiichuk and Hennadii Shyprykevych, ended up separate from the larger Ukrainian groups in the West. These two bishops ordained a bishop for the Free Serbs and some convert bishops, who often became modernist and vagante after consecration. Despite Archbishop Hryhorii's patriotic Ukrainian feelings and his support for a "conciliar" (sobornaprava) church in which lay people have a voice, he reportedly admired Saint Philaret of ROCOR's loyalty to Orthodoxy in the face of modernism. Ukrainians often have a distaste for Muscovite authoritarianism, but Ukrainians often are less strict about canons. (That is a stereotype, but it is often true.) That is the absolute tragedy today. The Moscow Patriarchate people often are more traditional, but they are compromised by Putin-style Sergianism. The Ukrainians often oppose Putin-style Sergianism and Muscovite tyranny, but they are more influenced by modern western culture. It is difficult to find people who are traditionally-pious and also unentangled with secular nationalism and political extremism. Many of the True Orthodox people still exist in a semi-catacomb existence. Today, there are obviously less restrictions than under the Soviets, but the True Orthodox are sometimes reluctant to be fully open about their religious identity, because of harassment from the Putin regime and the Moscow Patriarchate. In Ukraine, there is more freedom of conscience, but, as we all know, the country is more modern and westernized than Russia. There are True Orthodox in Ukraine and Russia, but their numbers are small, and they are divided. I do not believe that Ukraine is on the verge of collapse (like Libya) as some pro-Putin propagandists are claiming. Russian trolls are highly active in the media and the internet, spreading truths, half-truths, and disinformation, in a dizzying mix (like the claim that Ukraine is like Libya). But, the Russian trolls are correct that Ukraine has problems. Today, most of Ukraine is NOT going back to its pious Orthodox roots. The Ukrainian government is desperate to join the undemocratic and un-Christian EU. Ironically, it is the "European Union" which is trying to force non-European (often Muslim) immigrants on European nations like Hungary, Poland, Slovakia, etc., who want to remain European (and maybe even Christian), culturally and by population. If Ukrainians want to preserve a European Christian civilization in their country, they should not subordinate themselves to the EU. They should not allow significant non-European and non-Christian immigration. If they want to preserve Orthodoxy, they should not do business with the Ecumenical Patriarchate, or the Moscow Patriarchate, or the Kiev Patriarchate of Filaret Denysenko. May some of the Ukrainian people return to their pious Ukrainian roots, and find True Orthodoxy today!