Is this a Vagante or True Greek Jurisdiction?

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Agios_Irineos
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Re: Is this a Vagante or True Greek Jurisdiction?

Post by Agios_Irineos »

someguy wrote:

So if all the visuals of the parish look correct how does one check the authenticity of the priest's bishop and further the other bishops in the synod?

I'm guessing if asked he would say everything is fine right?

Visuals can be deceptive, as the world church will look orthodox. Within the Greek GOCs you can definitely examine whether they succession of bishops goes back to either the Florinite or Mathewite lines. If you find a "Greek" TOC with bishops claiming succession from the Ukraine or Old Catholics or what not, you almost certainly have a vagante group. With the Russians, given the multiple ROCOR splits, I think it is harder to suss out. Perhaps someone who knows the Russian succession better can give some ideas.

someguy
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Re: Is this a Vagante or True Greek Jurisdiction?

Post by someguy »

I think alot of "mainstream" orthodox followers shun "true" orthodox parishes as they are usually small and class them as schismatic and disobedient. In my experience they say they are rogue and against the church and then all the stories of pedophilia come out etc. Sadly this has indeed happened in the mainstream church and the smaller true orthodox parishes but not all people in the ministry fall in this way.

I understand that if a group of bishops deviates from the status quo, then those who are left behind in the mainstream are in schism and those who left are the only ones with grace so its understandable that they cannot endorse any other synod of bishops etc. As all the true orthodox parishes I've been to do not endorse each other completely from what I can tell and it makes sense I guess.

In terms of Florinite or Mathewite tracing synods I know of one church that was Florinite from what I know though the bishop reposed years ago so now I am not sure what they categorize as and in terms of the other Mathewite church what does the community here think of this site "https://www.trueorthodoxy.org/" that seems to dismiss many G.O.C as Greek Schismatics which includes the original Mathewite synod?

Essentially what I am asking may be hard to answer as all the people here are "true" and loyal to their parish and their hierarchs.

All the pointers mentioned about warning signs of pressures such as making people afraid and not letting people research etc along with favortism does not seem to occur thankfully.

But it is the bishop that seems to be the mystery so any more knowledge that can be shared via looking at the website previously listed would be appreciated.

Lord have mercy on me a sinner...

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Orthodox in Michigan
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Posts: 174
Joined: Mon 26 March 2018 8:10 pm
Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOC Archbishop Pachomios

Re: Is this a Vagante or True Greek Jurisdiction?

Post by Orthodox in Michigan »

someguy wrote:

I think alot of "mainstream" orthodox followers shun "true" orthodox parishes as they are usually small and class them as schismatic and disobedient. In my experience they say they are rogue and against the church and then all the stories of pedophilia come out etc. Sadly this has indeed happened in the mainstream church and the smaller true orthodox parishes but not all people in the ministry fall in this way.

I understand that if a group of bishops deviates from the status quo, then those who are left behind in the mainstream are in schism and those who left are the only ones with grace so its understandable that they cannot endorse any other synod of bishops etc. As all the true orthodox parishes I've been to do not endorse each other completely from what I can tell and it makes sense I guess.

In terms of Florinite or Mathewite tracing synods I know of one church that was Florinite from what I know though the bishop reposed years ago so now I am not sure what they categorize as and in terms of the other Mathewite church what does the community here think of this site "https://www.trueorthodoxy.org/" that seems to dismiss many G.O.C as Greek Schismatics which includes the original Mathewite synod?

Essentially what I am asking may be hard to answer as all the people here are "true" and loyal to their parish and their hierarchs.

All the pointers mentioned about warning signs of pressures such as making people afraid and not letting people research etc along with favortism does not seem to occur thankfully.

But it is the bishop that seems to be the mystery so any more knowledge that can be shared via looking at the website previously listed would be appreciated.

Lord have mercy on me a sinner...

I originally posted something but caught it and deleted it i do not know if you have permission to go into the intra toc discussion fourm if you do maybe they can give you more information on Archbishop gregory of Colorado or see what i wrote. The moderators can only see the deleted post now.

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Maria
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Re: Is this a Vagante or True Greek Jurisdiction?

Post by Maria »

Orthodox in michigan wrote:

I originally posted something but caught it and deleted it i do not know if you have permission to go into the intra toc discussion fourm if you do maybe they can give you more information on Archbishop gregory of Colorado or see what i wrote. The moderators can only see the deleted post now.

Dear Orthodox in Michigan,

Whenever you delete a post, it is "hard deleted" and cannot be seen by moderators. I just looked.
Your post, Orthodox in Michigan, was not in the mod forum.

Please do not delete your posts, instead edit them down to three periods . . .
If you delete your posts, then this board can crash as it has in the past.
Even the mods do not delete their own posts, but we use the edit feature and type something else.

In Christ,
Maria
Administrator

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

User avatar
Maria
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Posts: 8428
Joined: Fri 11 June 2004 8:39 pm
Faith: True Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOC
Location: USA

Re: Is this a Vagante or True Greek Jurisdiction?

Post by Maria »

Dear someguy,

I will give you access to the private forums.

In Christ,
Maria
Administrator

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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