Proto-ecumenism before the 1920s

[Jean-Serge]

I am off this first week of Lent... But I will give all details I could find next week...

[Barbara]

Please do, Jean-Serge.
And have an edifying 1st Week of Lent, hopefully somewhat relaxing, too

[Jean-Serge]

Did you know that a pannychida was held for the King of France Louis XVI, in France, on the current square of the Concorde at the order of Tsar Alexander 1st, in 1814? Definitely not canonical at all. 

 According to orthodox tradition, the pannychida can be served only for deceased orthodox and catechumens. Theodore Studite is a witness of this practice as he criticized the fact of doing pannychidas for people who defined themselves as orthodox but attended as the same time heretic services."Regarding this, we are currently receiving critics because we forbade an orthodox to mention in the sacred service for the deads, according to the divine initiation, a person who said he was orthodox but attended continuously the heresy [...] Since he died atteding the heresy, how could he be inserted in the orthodox communion ?" (Translated from French Saint Théodore le Studite, in Petites Catéchèses, numéro 129).
 Following Napoleon's defeat, on March 29th 1814 (old style), April 10th in the civil calendar, a pannychida as held on the current Square of Concord in Paris (Place de la Concorde), in memory of Louis XVI, at the request of he Tsar Alexander 1st. There are few detailed information about this on the Internet. Here is an article in Russian that treats about the topic. We can read the following. :В 1814 году (29 марта по старому стилю) в Париже на месте казни короля Людовика XVI была проведена православная поминальная панихида.« Это было сделано по велению императора Александра I, вступившего во французскую столицу после поражения Наполеона.10 апреля в 1814 году в Париже на месте казни короля Людовика XVI была проведена православная поминальная панихида ».
 Link: https://knowhistory.ru/date/4/10/v-1814 ... voslavnaya
Translation"This was done on order of the emperor Alexander I who had entered in the French capital following Napoleon's defeat.On April 10th, 1814, by order of the emperor Alexander I, on the place of execution of the kink Louis XVI, an orthodox pannychida was held"As a member of the orthodox cleargy, would you have taken part to it? 

From my blog : http://orthodoxie-libre.over-blog.com/p ... s-xvi.html
 
 

[Suaidan]

Did you know that a pannychida was held for the King of France Louis XVI, in France, on the current square of the Concorde at the order of Tsar Alexander 1st, in 1814? Definitely not canonical at all. 
From my blog : http://orthodoxie-libre.over-blog.com/p ... s-xvi.html

 

This hardly seems like a great example of ecumenism, considering the political movements in France and the Tsar's dislike for Napoleon's revolutionary aims. This could be seen as misguided on the part of the Tsar, but it could also be argued he was doing it, however erroneously, in the defense of monarchy in general. I really can't call that more than misguided, nor could I say with certainty as the Tsar I would have done any differently. Sorry if that's an unsatisfactory answer, but I am not willing to spit on the historical monarchy of Russia so easily. Maybe I'm crazy. But I just wouldn't.
 

[Barbara]

Thanks for digging up that episode, Jean-Serge. I find it very, very interesting.

I actually don't see anything wrong with it, as, briefly, we must remember that the Russian Court from quite some time was culturally pro-French EVERYTHING. You didn't see Tsar Alexander I ordering a pannikhida said for a Prussian King. Naturally, the latter were Lutherans anyway. But the Francophilia throughout the Russian upper classes was so pronounced that this deed would not have been viewed at the time as endorsing Catholicsm.

No, likely the reason was merely respect for a fellow monarch, as Fr Joseph suggests above.

In Europe it was the custom among Emperors and Kings to address each other as if a tight-knit fraternal clique, as "Brother". This is how all official letters or communications between monarchs would begin.

Thus, the Bourbon King Louis XVI would have been considered definitely a "Brother Monarch" by Tsar Alexander I.
Further, the latter was pretty open-minded [even accused of fraternizing with Masons], so for him it was not a big deal from an Orthodox standpoint.

The fascination that this Russian Tsar had with French royalty was shown when on that same visit to Paris after the defeat of Napoleon I, he made a beeline to visit Empress Josephine at Malmaison. [I may have written about this on another thread a long time ago.] Tsar Alexander had heard so much about Josephine's grace and charm that he could hardly wait to meet her in person.

The Tsar chivalrously intervened to lighten the restrictions imposed on the Bonaparte family by the other monarchs who had converged in Paris to decide the future now that their long-time enemy was defeated finally.

So it would have been in character for him to also show respect for the memory the tragically killed French King Louis XVI. The most familiar way would have been to have a pannikhida served for the soul of the royal victim of the barbarous French revolutionaries.
 
 

[Jean-Serge]

So, suddenly pannychidas for non orthodox become fine on the condition that they are monarchs... but it is forbidden for the average Joe.

What is sure is that the orthodoxy of Tsar Alexander I was really dubious. He was never a well-grounded orthodox. His teaching as a child was done by a Swiss private teacher selected by Catherine II. This teacher, Frédéric-César de la Harpe was a free mason. Following this, the tsar was in a permanent spiritual search, anxiety and instability that that led him to look for answer with Jung-Stilling, a sort of pietist that seems to have switched to theosophy later and after that with the lutheran pietist prophetess Barbata Juliane con Krüdener, who preached a sort of ecumenistic mysticism. He found peace only with her doctrine. Please note that both met for the first time in 1815, after this pannychida. However, the Tsar clearly had shown some spiritual unstability and non orthodox vision from start.

The funny thing is that Alexander 1st came to the power himself following a coup against his father Paul Ist, coup probably plotted by the British in which Paul 1st died in dubious circumstances. He never punished the conspirators and might have been a actually involved in the coup. The fact that a tsar that came to power thanks to a regicide in which he might not be so innocent and honours the victim of another regicide is "funny".

[Suaidan]

So, suddenly pannychidas for non orthodox become fine on the condition that they are monarchs... but it is forbidden for the average Joe.

What is sure is that the orthodoxy of Tsar Alexander I was really dubious. He was never a well-grounded orthodox. His teaching as a child was done by a Swiss private teacher selected by Catherine II. This teacher, Frédéric-César de la Harpe was a free mason. Following this, the tsar was in a permanent spiritual search, anxiety and instability that that led him to look for answer with Jung-Stilling, a sort of pietist that seems to have switched to theosophy later and after that with the lutheran pietist prophetess Barbata Juliane con Krüdener, who preached a sort of ecumenistic mysticism. He found peace only with her doctrine. Please note that both met for the first time in 1815, after this pannychida. However, the Tsar clearly had shown some spiritual unstability and non orthodox vision from start.

The funny thing is that Alexander 1st came to the power himself following a coup against his father Paul Ist, coup probably plotted by the British in which Paul 1st died in dubious circumstances. He never punished the conspirators and might have been a actually involved in the coup. The fact that a tsar that came to power thanks to a regicide in which he might not be so innocent and honours the victim of another regicide is "funny".

 

I mean, like you could stop watching so much History Channel

This is like OB level stuff, JS, you know better. I'm just saying.