Deaconesses, Baptism and Catechumens

[Natasha]

Wow, that is a lot to think about. All I can share with you is my experience, & that was when I was about 10 years old, & our Priest was speaking to me about the various parts of the church. He plainly told me that girls/women were not allowed back into the altar because women are unclean. I have seen debate where modernist Orthodox women challenge this thought, and argue that it is not because of "uncleaniness" but only because of tradition that women cannot serve in these roles.
Personally, I have never seen a female serve as an "altar-person" (ok, just writing that makes me laugh, it sounds too PC).

[尼古拉前执事]

Thankfully, I went out and bought the Rudder so I caould bring up the canons that are discussed within this thread and others. Here they are, in order of pronunciation:

CANON LXIX of the 102 CANONS:
Let it not be permitted to anyone among the laity to enter within the sacred altar, with the exception that the Imperial power and authority is in no way or manner excluded therefrom whenever it wishes to offer gifts to the Creator, in accordance with a certain most ancient tradition.

CANON XLIV of the 60 CANONS:
That women must not enter the sacrificial Altar.

CANON XV of the 37 CANONS (c.LXIX of the 6th.):
Nuns must enter the holy bema in order to light a taper or candle, and in order to sweep it.

[Liudmilla]

Nicholas:

Since you are quoting the Rudder: what do these canons say...

The Rudder'; see especially Canon 15 of the Fourth Council, Canons 14, 40 and 48 of the Sixth Council and Canon 24 of St Basil (from an earlier post)?

Liudmilla

[尼古拉前执事]

Nicholas:

Since you are quoting the Rudder: what do these canons say...

The Rudder'; see especially Canon 15 of the Fourth Council, Canons 14, 40 and 48 of the Sixth Council and Canon 24 of St Basil (from an earlier post)?

Liudmilla

CANON XV of the 30 CANONS (c.XIX of the 1st; cc.XIV & XI of the 6th; c.XLIV of Basil):
Let no woman be ordained a deaconess before the age of forty, and even then after a strict test. But if she, after receiving the gift of chirothesy and remaining for some time in the ministry, proceeds to give herself in marriage, thus insulting the grace of God, let any such actress be anathemized together with the man who has joined himself with her in marriage.

CANON XIV of the 102 CANONS (c.XIX of the 1st; c.XV of the 4th; c.XI of Neocaes; c.XXI of Car.):
Let the canon of our holy and God-bearing Fathers be observed also in respect to this, that a Presbyter may not be ordained before he is thirty years old, though the man be thoroughly worthy; but, instead, let him be obliged to wait. For our Lord Jesus Christ was baptized when He was thirty years old, and then he began teaching. Likewise, let no Deacon be ordained before he is twenty-five years old, nor a Deaconess before she is forty years old.

CANON XL of the 102 CANONS:
it is too long to transcribe right now, but that a monk has to be at least 10 years old and a nun 17. Then it repeats that Deaconesses must be 40.

CANON XLVIII of the 102 CANONS:
As touching any woman who is the wife of a man who is being elevated to the presidency of an Episcopate, and who by mutual agreement gets divorced from her own husband in advance after his ordaination to the Episcopate, let her enter a Convent that is in a location far removed from the home city of the Bishop, and let her be taken car eof by the Bishop. But if she also appears to be worthy, let her also be elevated to the office of Deaconess.

CANON XXIV of BASIL:
In case a widow has been enrolled among the number of privleged widows, that is, a widow being helped by the Church, and she gets married, the Apostle states that she is to be disregarded. As for a man who has become a widower, there is no law covering his case, but the penance meted out to diagamists is sufficient to be imposed upon such a man. As touching a widow, however, who has attained to the age of sixty years, if she chooses again to cohabit with a man, she shall not be deemed to deserve the privledge of partaking of communion until she desists from the passion of impurity. If, however, we number her before she is past sixty, the crime is ours, not the poor woman's.

The message I get from the canons you mentioned is that men and women are different and thus are treated differently.

[Methodius]

CANON XXIV of BASIL:
In case a widow has been enrolled among the number of privleged widows, that is, a widow being helped by the Church, and she gets married, the Apostle states that she is to be disregarded. As for a man who has become a widower, there is no law covering his case, but the penance meted out to diagamists is sufficient to be imposed upon such a man. As touching a widow, however, who has attained to the age of sixty years, if she chooses again to cohabit with a man, she shall not be deemed to deserve the privledge of partaking of communion until she desists from the passion of impurity. If, however, we number her before she is past sixty, the crime is ours, not the poor woman's.

I don't understand this canon at all!

[Julianna]

Thankfully, I went out and bought the Rudder so I caould bring up the canons that are discussed within this thread and others. Here they are, in order of pronunciation:

CANON LXIX of the 102 CANONS:
Let it not be permitted to anyone among the laity to enter within the sacred altar, with the exception that the Imperial power and authority is in no way or manner excluded therefrom whenever it wishes to offer gifts to the Creator, in accordance with a certain most ancient tradition.

CANON XLIV of the 60 CANONS:
That women must not enter the sacrificial Altar.

CANON XV of the 37 CANONS (c.LXIX of the 6th.):
Nuns must enter the holy bema in order to light a taper or candle, and in order to sweep it.

thanks Nicholas!

[Joe Zollars]

thanks Nicholas

Joe Zollars