On Hallowe'en

The practice of living the life in Christ: fasting, vigil lamps, head-coverings, family life, icon corners, and other forms of Orthopraxy. All Forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.
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joasia
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Post by joasia »

Serge,

First of all, the celebration of Halloween, i.e., people dressing up in costumes, going to parties, and "begging" for candy, is not un-Catholic. Halloween falls on October 31st because the Feast of All Saints or "All Hallows" falls on November 1st. The feast in honor of all the Saints used to be celebrated on May 13th, but Pope Gregory III, in 731, moved it to November 1st, the dedication day of All Saints Chapel in St Peter's in Rome. This feast spread throughout the world.

The Catholics don't exactly follow the Seven Ecumenical Councils. So this point is moot.

Therefore, the Church had a feast of the Saints and those in Purgatory.

Purgatory, pallleeessse. This already shows a falling away from the Christian traditional belief(Orthodoxy-the Right Path).

It was the Irish Catholics who came up with the idea to remember somehow those souls who did not live by the Faith in this life. It became customary for these Irish to bang on pots and pans on All Hallow's Eve to let the damned know that they were not forgotten. In Ireland, then, all the dead came to be remembered

Tell this to St. Patrick.

This practice arose in France during the 14th and 15th centuries.

Waaayyy after the Great Schism, hence not valid to the Christian faith.

The two were brought together in the colonies of North America during the 18th century, when Irish and French Catholics began to intermarry. Thus the two celebrations became mingled, and we began dressing up on Halloween. It is, as we can see, a very "American" holiday, but Catholic as well.

Nothing to do with the actual Truth.

The next time someone claims Halloween is a cruel trick to lure our children into devil worship, I suggest you tell them the real origin of Halloween and let them know about its Catholic roots and significance. (By Fr Scott Archer)

The blind leading the blind.

A word of caution, however. The Church has always condemned as sins against the First Commandment, and thus cautioned her children to stay far away from: astrology, charms, divination, fortune-telling, magic, the ouija boards, sorcery, spells, witchcraft, and other occult activities, even if they are treated in a trivial or jesting fashion.
St Thomas Aquinas says that it is not permitted to Christians even to dabble in such things: "Man has not been entrusted with power over the demons to employ them to whatsoever purpose he will. On the contrary, it is appointed that he should wage war against the demons. Hence, in no way is it lawful for man to make use of the demons' help by compacts -- either tacit or express" (II- II, Q96, Art. 3).

If it's all fun and games, then why this drastic warning?

We remember too the enjoinder of the Prayer to St Michael concerning Satanam aliosque spiritus malignos qui ad perditionem animarum pervagantur in mundo [Satan and the other evil spirits who roam in the world for the ruin of souls]. As in all things, parents must be sure to teach their children the proper balance in such matters, erring neither on the side of defect or excess.

Nice quote, but this whole article has been trying to convince parents that Halloween is only fun and games. So why the scare tactic???

There's alot more to the celebration of Halloween. It is plain as paganism. If you really want to know the truth, then you need to do more research.

Joanna

Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)

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ania
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Post by ania »

Joasia wrote:

Serge,

First of all, the celebration of Halloween, i.e., people dressing up in costumes, going to parties, and "begging" for candy, is not un-Catholic. Halloween falls on October 31st because the Feast of All Saints or "All Hallows" falls on November 1st. The feast in honor of all the Saints used to be celebrated on May 13th, but Pope Gregory III, in 731, moved it to November 1st, the dedication day of All Saints Chapel in St Peter's in Rome. This feast spread throughout the world.

The Catholics don't exactly follow the Seven Ecumenical Councils. So this point is moot.

731 is before the Great Schism... we were all one Church then, your point is moot.

Joasia wrote:

It was the Irish Catholics who came up with the idea to remember somehow those souls who did not live by the Faith in this life. It became customary for these Irish to bang on pots and pans on All Hallow's Eve to let the damned know that they were not forgotten. In Ireland, then, all the dead came to be remembered

Tell this to St. Patrick.

The Irish had to be Catholic to be Irish Catholic, which meant this was after St. Patrick. Once again, however, this was before the Great Schism so your point is moot.

Joasia wrote:

A word of caution, however. The Church has always condemned as sins against the First Commandment, and thus cautioned her children to stay far away from: astrology, charms, divination, fortune-telling, magic, the ouija boards, sorcery, spells, witchcraft, and other occult activities, even if they are treated in a trivial or jesting fashion.
St Thomas Aquinas says that it is not permitted to Christians even to dabble in such things: "Man has not been entrusted with power over the demons to employ them to whatsoever purpose he will. On the contrary, it is appointed that he should wage war against the demons. Hence, in no way is it lawful for man to make use of the demons' help by compacts -- either tacit or express" (II- II, Q96, Art. 3).

If it's all fun and games, then why this drastic warning?

It doesn't seem to be a warning to me, it's a disclaimer.

Joasia wrote:

We remember too the enjoinder of the Prayer to St Michael concerning Satanam aliosque spiritus malignos qui ad perditionem animarum pervagantur in mundo [Satan and the other evil spirits who roam in the world for the ruin of souls]. As in all things, parents must be sure to teach their children the proper balance in such matters, erring neither on the side of defect or excess.

Nice quote, but this whole article has been trying to convince parents that Halloween is only fun and games. So why the scare tactic???

Scare tactic? It's a statement of fact, that parents should teach their children the difference between good & evil.

Joasia wrote:

There's alot more to the celebration of Halloween. It is plain as paganism. If you really want to know the truth, then you need to do more research.

Joanna

So, apparently, do you.

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joasia
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Post by joasia »

Ania,

731 is before the Great Schism... we were all one Church then, your point is moot.

What I was referring to was the author's point that it's a catholic tradition. The Christian Church, pre-Schism(1054 A.D.), didn't celebrate this celtic feast. It was prohibited by the Holy Fathers. That's why they moved the feast day of all saints to Nov. 1st, so that the Christians who were tempted to go to the celebration on Oct 31st, would, instead, have a great feast day to celebrate for that vespers and go to church. Hence it would keep them away from the pagan rituals for that night. Because of that, I don't know where he gets the idea that it's a catholic tradition, like it's acceptable by Christ. That makes the origination of this acceptance, AFTER the Great Schism.

The Irish had to be Catholic to be Irish Catholic, which meant this was after St. Patrick. Once again, however, this was before the Great Schism so your point is moot.

Again, you mis-understand me. St. Patrick battled the demons of the celtics, pre-Schism, so the explanation that this is a catholic tradition is false..it was there since the time of St. Patrick. If St. Patrick did not approve of their superstitious behaviour, then why are the catholics adopting it(or as I refer to them, papists)? They must have done so, AFTER the GREAT SCHISM.

It doesn't seem to be a warning to me, it's a disclaimer.

Okay, I can see it that way. But, why try to explain that this is a catholic tradition and it's okay and then mention the rest? Disclaimer or warning...it's still a contradiction.

Scare tactic? It's a statement of fact, that parents should teach their children the difference between good & evil.

Again, it's also stating that this is a catholic tradition which is okay, because the catholic church allows it. The catholic parents are being told that it IS okay, because it's a CATHOLIC tradition. Then why turn the tables and talk about how bad it is? Meaning all that other superstitious stuff he listed. The article is misleading.

So, apparently, do you.

Perhaps I wasn't clear with my initial comments. The article supports Halloween because it is based on a CATHOLIC tradition. The Irish catholics started their tradition, which is AFTER the GREAT SCHISM, hence it makes the tradition un-Christian, because we all know all the lies the catholic hierarchy have taught about Christianity. This is one of them, and frankly, it's the first time I've heard of this.

Let me remind you that Serge posted that article with a comment to the effect that Halloween is not considered bad...then the article. Hence, that article, by a priest, if I recall, was stating postive facts about Halloween IS accepted because the CATHOLIC church supported it as a tradition.

IF the tradition DID occur before pre-Schism, then it was another reason for the seperation of the West and East. The devil does not need to sleep. He is working around the clock. So let's say, we agree that, yes, the See of Rome allowed this tradition and a couple of centuries later allowed the Filioque. That is why we are in this state today.

Can we, at least, agree that it's not right to allow the Christians to celebrate this pagan sacrifice of soul?

Joanna

Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)

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Liudmilla
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Post by Liudmilla »

Seems like a good time to bump this up.....considering....

Milla

OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

Re: Halloween 2004 starring Harry Potter

So Ania, it is acceptable to celebrate a holiday that glorifies something that delights the enemy of our souls and potentially opens us up to demonic harrassment? And for people to decorate, paint, and dress up their houses as lairs of the undead and to adorn their bodies, the temple of God, as vampires, demons, and witches?

God gave us some very strict guidelines for our own protection, commanding us to stay away from items and practices of witchcraft and divination. These things make us wide open to the influence of Satan and the demons.

As a parent Ania, I can tell you raising children as Orthodox Christians is not a simple matter of making sure they are physically cared for. As St. John the Chyrsostom writes, these things will fall into place naturally. What is our duty is today far more desperate than at any other time, it is a spiritual life and death struggle. How frightening it is to know all of the evils that await my children to murder them and destroy them - spiritually each time they leave the home. Many people today obviously have no concept of this: they either do not care or have been so well enveloped by the world they can no longer distinguish between the ways of God and the ways of the demons.

Just my opinion for 2004. Stay tuned for next years comment....:)

gphadraig
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Post by gphadraig »

From what I see of contemporary activity this 'festival' has little to recommend it and much to question. Trick or treating seems to have an air of coercion to it in some areas this side of the pond. In Britain some supermarkets are banning the sale of eggs to youngsters, because these are thrown at those who do not join in the 'fun'. Hardly a Christian act towards older and vunerable folk.

My larger concerns stems from a significant trend toward making 'witches', witchcraft, magic, divination, the occult and such like entertaining and apparently harmless, even socially desirable.

Which ever way you cut it there is something here which should make adherents to The Truth uncomfortable, to say the least. Satan is a liar, the father of lies and a deceiver, per se. Children are all too often the target things which are too often anything but edifying or instructive. Is Halloween simply something insidious with a whiff of evil about it rather than the harmless fun some would have us believe?

In baptism we put off the old (wo)man and put on the new. Do some of the posts show some are attached to baggage they brought with them or have taken from a largely secular or heterodox society in which they live?

OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

Is Halloween simply something insidious with a whiff of evil about it rather than the harmless fun some would have us believe?

I think this is a big part of the problem for some people to be able to recognize Halloween for what it is - they think it is harmless fun.

But let me say one more thing: It is not harmless fun. Neither are so many other cartoons, action figures, and toys which use the themes of humanist pagan gods and demonic activity. These are the ways in which demons easily "baptize" children into accepting them as "friends", so that by the time they are adults, they are watching truly horrific and demonic scenes and believe man can solve all of their own problems independent of God, and think nothing of it.

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