GOA now tonsuring women as clergy?

[PFC Nektarios]

No it wasnt a clerical rank because only men can be part of the clergy.
Deaconness were not even allowed behind the Icon Screen.

In Christ
Nektarios

[PFC Nektarios]

I know they were Catecheist and teachers. I also know they were not allowed behind the altar Icon screen.

In Christ
Nektarios

[Vicki]

Christ is Risen!
Truly He is Risen!

Dear Nektarios,

Sadly, the Antiochians in "The Old Country" DO intend to ordain a woman as deacon, it was on the Typikon list...I'll look for it and reference it so you can ask about it.

Vicki

Vicki,
"Deacon" as in serving IN the altar or "Deaconess"?

These are sad times. Maybe Met. Phillip will finally break. The mother churches are in their dotage.

Demetri

Christos Anesti!

From what I remember reading, Demetri, it was "Deacon" as in serving IN the altar...not reviving the deaconesses, which in that part of the world (as a charitable lay ministry) is not uncommon among the Copts, at least, I don't know about others...

Vicki

[Mor Ephrem]

I also know they were not allowed behind the altar Icon screen.

Ah, but I remember reading somewhere that they were allowed to commune in the altar behind the iconostasis (if such existed at the time), after deacons and before subdeacons. Also, it is alleged that the prayer for ordaining a deaconess is basically the same prayer for ordaining a deacon, with gender specific references appropriately changed. How can we be so sure that it wasn't regarded as a clerical rank? What other evidence is there against this?

[PFC Nektarios]

My priest told me that the prayer for tonsureing a reader says it must be a male. He also told me that during the deanery meeting, His Grace+Bishop Joseph condemed the "tonsure" of a women, and said that it will never happen in the Antiochian Church. The Antiochian Church here wasnt to happy about it. Orignally before I recieved the confirmation e-mal from St. Pauls Priest about it, my priest said it would be impossiable for a female to be tonsured a reader because its the first rank of clergy/Priesthood, and women cannont be priest or clergy so its impossiable. So look what the GOA did. Seems the Ecumenistic GOA doensnt care, I wouldnt doubt if they tried ordaining a women. "Metropolitan" Anthony is a nut.

In Christ
Nektarios

[Vicki]

Christ is Risen!
Truly He is Risen!

Dear Nektarios,

Sadly, the Antiochians in "The Old Country" DO intend to ordain a woman as deacon, it was on the Typikon list...I'll look for it and reference it so you can ask about it.

Vicki

Christ is Risen!

There was rather a bit of discussion about this, but here are the specifics of the case in question:

The first post, which stunned many:

Dear John,

A friend of mine has been a Reader since 5 years (She was the
first female Reader as she said). She told me she will be tonsured a
Deaconess. At the time of the Apostles there was female deacons so it
should not be a problem but it is weird and exceptional. Since "Times
are changing", things will not be weird anymore.

Michel

Followed by specifics...

Dear Kevin,

It is a Greek Orthodox Church. Not a Melkite one. I do not know the
details how it happened.

Michel

Dear Vicki,

My friend is in Lebanon. Not in the USA. Bishop Georges Khodr
tonsured her.

Michel

That is all I know about the tonsure to READER, but the same Lebanese ANTIOCHIAN (full name of Church responsible for confusion, googling on Bishop's name will clarify this is Antiochian) Bishop is the one who plans the tonsure to deacon.

Vicki

[Vicki]

My priest told me that the prayer for tonsureing a reader says it must be a male. He also told me that during the deanery meeting, His Grace+Bishop Joseph condemed the "tonsure" of a women, and said that it will never happen in the Antiochian Church. The Antiochian Church here wasnt to happy about it. Orignally before I recieved the confirmation e-mal from St. Pauls Priest about it, my priest said it would be impossiable for a female to be tonsured a reader because its the first rank of clergy/Priesthood, and women cannont be priest or clergy so its impossiable. So look what the GOA did. Seems the Ecumenistic GOA doensnt care, I wouldnt doubt if they tried ordaining a women. "Metropolitan" Anthony is a nut.

In Christ
Nektarios

Christ is Risen!

Nektarios, the Antiochian Orthodox Church in the USA has tonusred women readers, too! (Going back to ANTOUN!) So, they are in NO position to cast the first stone. Tonsuring women as readers is WRONG, but AA do so, too!

Vicki