Byzantine Catholics?

[OrthoDoc]

Serge writes:

[Quote:
That there are only minor differences between us.

They are minor but real.]

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Reply: So you think that the differences between Roman Catholicism and Orthodox Catholicism are minor? Have you read 'The Rush To Embrace' ? Perhaps you should since you seem to have not fully shaken off your Byzantine Catholic sojourn even though you now attend an Orthodox Catholic Church. You will find very few Orthodox that will agree with you except for maybe two or three Ecumenical minded bishops under the EP who's Orthodoxy seems to be getting watered down due to their ecumenical activities. Though I am not ROCOR I am in complete agreement with them on their stance on ecumenism. And these three bishops seem tobe proof of the pudding from some of the statements they have been attributed to saying.

[Is your claim to the capitalized form of the word based on the patristic writings that call the true church the Catholic Church? If so, that's understandable. But in modern English, 'Catholic' with a big C means 'under the Pope', which you most vehemently are not. OTOH, Dustin and I agree with you that BCs are not 'Orthodox' (big O). ]

Serge, you know darn well it is! Since we've gone all through this countless times on other sites. But that is only part of it. I don't intend to go thru another round with you here. That is unless you can show some positive proof the the Holy Orthodox Church left that original 'One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church' we profess belief in at every Liturgy when we recite the Nicene Creed which is the core of our beliefs as Orthodox. And, is therefore, no longer a part of it.

As an Orthodox Christian my Catholicity isn't dependent upon the American Collegiate dictionary, whats PC, or what the average man on the street thinks. Its dependent upon the history and councils of the undivided Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church which no other Church protects and adheres to more than the Orthodox Church.

Orthodoc
the Orthodox Catholic -

The Orthodox Catholic Faith

By V. Rev. Damian Krehel

http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.or ... _faith.htm

[Serge]

Reply: So you think that the differences between Roman Catholicism and Orthodox Catholicism are minor?

Thou hast said it.

Have you read 'The Rush To Embrace' ?

I have a copy and have looked through it - I think I read it about seven years ago. IMO Fr Alexey Young isn't objective - he has a humungo chip on his shoulder, again IMO because he is an ex-Catholic.

Perhaps you should since you seem to have not fully shaken off your Byzantine Catholic sojourn even though you now attend an Orthodox Catholic Church.

I've tried to keep the tone of this objective and courteous, not getting personal. Sorry you can't seem to do that. I'll neither confirm or deny what you wrote in that sentence (my past or my church membership are none of your or the cyberworld's business) but will call you on your bad manners.

You will find very few Orthodox that will agree with you except for maybe two or three Ecumenical minded bishops under the EP who's Orthodoxy seems to be getting watered down due to their ecumenical activities.

The Church of Russia has issued documents that mirror Catholicism's view - it routinely does not rebaptize or rechrismate ex-Catholics. Of course those statements have no dogmatic standing in Eastern Orthodoxy. But it proves the 'problem' isn't just with the Greeks and fairly represents a good part of the Orthodox communion (the Russian Church is the biggest Orthodox church).

[Justin Kissel]

my past or my church membership are none of your or the cyberworld's business

You've said that on two different fora now Serge. It says a lot about your current "situation," which has, unfortunately, become somewhat of a discussion topic among those concerned for your soul.

[Serge]

You've said that on two different fora now Serge. It says a lot about your current "situation," which has, unfortunately, become somewhat of a discussion topic among those concerned for your soul.

What does this speculation have to do with the topic at hand? Seems like nothing but gossip, adding to the inappropriate personal nature of Orthodoc's remark. I should hope that, having at least the form of religion, you would be above that.

When writing about any of these subjects, be it Orthodox or Byzantine Catholic groups, I try to be as fair and objective as possible.

[Justin Kissel]

It is very relevant, Serge. You have always been, at the least, sympathetic towards those outside Orthodoxy. It would be no small thing if you were to go even further in their direction than you were a few months ago. When the new people read your posts, who are they reading posts from? Someone completely within the Orthodox tradition? Someone gravitating towards some kind of synthesis of Anglican/Catholic/Orthodox? This is necessary information for people if they are to "objectively" examine what you say.

Things are not said in a vacuum, and when you post you are posting with certain pre-conceived notions/biases/etc. By refusing to give insight into a crucial part of your current mindset--under the outrageous guise of privacy, as though giving out credit information and your religious affiliation are even remotely similar--you are committing what I can only term "intellectual cheating". You want people to evaluate what you say, but won't give a context in which it can be evaluated. If you were Nicholas, or Anastasios, this wouldn't be an issue, because even though they are (or were) in somewhat of a "changing" situation, there is/was no question as to where they stand/stood. With you, though, Serge, I don't know if I'm reading the posts of an Orthodox who is Orthodox only because "they're a little bit more correct," of someone floating between Churches, or whatever else that might be your mindset.

Obviously posting on this forum doesn't require giving your religious affiliation; yet if you refuse to give it, you had better be ready for some backlash in the form of people refusing to discuss things with you--or at least, certain topics with you (certainly a topic which has direct relation to your church affiliation).

In His Love, because I worry about you Serge,

Justin

PS. I mentioned it because I thought you should know. Telling you by PM would only have perpetuated the "behind the scenes" nature of the speculation. Seeing as how you are being publically vague and confirming some worries, however, I thought there no problem in saying publically what some worry about privately. There's also the fact that I'm not a "friend" of yours (though I do hope we are friendly! I rather like you Serge, I hope you don't get the wrong idea), and so I can more easily say stuff like that.

[Serge]

Justin,

I have added to my posting above. Before I end this conversation (and it is over), 1) I am not advocating a synthesis of Anglican/Catholic/Orthodox - sounds like the games with religion that vagante bishops play - though my core beliefs are largely shared by conservative high-church members of all three groups. 2) 'Outrageous guise of privacy'? That remark is really frightening. 3) Dragging a conversation from one forum into this very different forum is bad netiquette. 4) 'You had better be ready for some backlash in the form of people refusing to discuss things with you--or at least, certain topics with you.' OK, fine.

Good day.

[OrthoDoc]

[(my past or my church membership are none of your or the cyberworld's business) but will call you on your bad manners. ]

Beg to differ Serge. It is when you come into an Orthodox site and post representing Orthodox values, opinions, of doctrine. People are under the impression that you are speaking on behalf of and for the Orthodox Church.

What bad manners is it to state that you are a former Byzantine Catholic who converted to Orthodoxy? Is that something to be ashamed of or embarassed by? If so, why? As you know, I'm well aware of the parish you attend and your religious background.

[Quote:
Reply: So you think that the differences between Roman Catholicism and Orthodox Catholicism are minor?

Thou hast said it.

Quote:
Have you read 'The Rush To Embrace' ?

[I have a copy and have looked through it - I think I read it about seven years ago. IMO Fr Alexey Young isn't objective - he has a humungo chip on his shoulder, again IMO because he is an ex-Catholic.]

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Reply:

So you just pass off the opinions of a very highly respected (by ALL Orthodox jurisdictions) and well educated ROCOR priest because his views and opinions do not coincide with yours. When did you become such an expert? Do you also disagree with the opinions and views regarding the RCC of Bishop Anthony of Sourozh (sp?)

[The Church of Russia has issued documents that mirror Catholicism's view - it routinely does not rebaptize or rechrismate ex-Catholics.]

Roman Catholicism's view on what Serge? The Immaculate Conception, Papal Supremacy, Purgatory, Papal Infallibility, etc.? Please specify.

Orthodoc