How do the Orthodox Fathers view fantasy and the imagination

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Maria
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How do the Orthodox Fathers view fantasy and the imagination

Post by Maria »

In another thread, which shall not be mentioned, we were discussing fantasy. Is fantasy always bad and is it to be avoided by those who wish to grow theosis? Are novelists and readers of novels endangering their growth in Christ?

Furthermore, Metropolitan Hierotheos in his many books has been encouraging people not to use the imagination when praying.

Additionally, Kyriacos Markides in his book, Mountain of Silence discussed logismoi and its effect on the spiritual life.

These two authors have a wealth of materials that we can use as references. So I welcome any additional references you can provide as we begin to discuss the possible pitfalls of fantasy and the use of one's imagination.

Yours in Christ our God,
Maria

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joasia
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Post by joasia »

Thank you Maria for your post. I think that it's an important topic to discuss.

"...compared with the things valued and prized by men, what is loved by God is better and more precious by far. For the things that men value lack being: they only seem to exist because of mistaken judgment, but have no principle of existence at all: there is only the fantasy, which cheats the intellect and through passion supplies non-existent things with empty form but no real substance." (St. Maximos the Confessor, Philokalia, vol. 2, page 264)

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Maria
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Post by Maria »

OrthodoxyOrDeath printed this in the other thread, so I thought that I should repost it as it relates to the topic on hand:

God reveals Himself to the humble, who live in accordance with virtue. Those who take up the wings of the imagination attempt the flight of Ikaros and have same end. Those who harbor fantasies do not pray; for he that prays lifts his mind and heart towards God, whereas he that turns to fantasies diverts himself. Those who are addicted to the imagination have withdrawn from God's grace and from the realm of Divine revelation. They have abandoned the heart in which grace is revealed and have surrendered themselves to the imagination, which is devoid of all grace. It is only the heart that receives knowledge about things that are not apprehended by the senses, because God, Who dwells and moves within it, speaks within it and reveals to it the substance of things hoped for.

"Modern Orthodox Saints, St. Nectarios of Aegina", Dr. Constantine Cavarnos, Institute for Byzantine and Modern Greek Studies, Belmont, Massachusetts., 1981., pp. 154-187

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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Maria
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Post by Maria »

there is only the fantasy, which cheats the intellect and through passion supplies non-existent things with empty form but no real substance.
--St. Maximos the Confessor

If you have ever given into daydreaming, you will notice how the devil can easily enter in.

It is interesting how, within the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, daydreaming is frowned upon precisely because it is an idle pursuit. Since daydreaming (part of fantasy) is contrary to St. Paul's injunction to pray without ceasing, even those who believe in Sola Scriptura should be against this empty pursuit that cheats the intellect, arrouses the passions, and makes ceaseless prayer all but impossible. How can we think about God when our mind is filled with earthly cares?

When we use fantasy to envision heaven or theological problems, then we can easily be lead into error, as did Arius and other heretics who tried to solve the mysteries of God outside of the Church. Since the fantasy is so individualized, use of it can easily lead to pride, and pride to a fall. This is where the devil can step in and tempt us.

Our imagination, too, can mislead us. If we use our God-given imagination to envision a new type of solar energy, for example, then this is a productive use of the imagination along with the intellect, and this is good. If, however, we allow our imagination to get away from us, then we can become engaged in needless worrying which can lead to psychological illness if not brought under control quickly. Worrying is a sign of a lack of trust in God. Worrying is an abuse of our imagination.

This is only my two cents ... any comments, corrections, or new observations from the readers here? Please do share.

Lovingly in Christ-God,
Maria

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joasia
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Post by joasia »

Maria,

That's exactly how I see it too. I've even caught myself imagining things in my life, the way I would want things to happen, but that was putting my own view of the situation as if I knew what's best. Then that little voice in my head would say: So, you know better then God?

That would bring my imaginings to a sharp closure. Of course, I want to do God's will and not mine. And on other occasions, I would tell myself: Stop it. Accept God's will. And I would ask God to forgive me for getting carried away with my little fantasy, whether it was wishing to have a car or visiting a convent for a week.

But, we will at one time or another fall into a fantasy of some kind or another. This shows that we are not pure of thought, as the saints have attained(I don't remember reading a saint talking about a fantasy he had of a worldly concern). Because, they always lifted up their thoughts to God, even when in conversation with someone. When their minds and hearts are constently lifted up, they leave behind any desire to look down(worldly concerns and pleasures).

And yes, even writing on the cafe is one of those worldly pleasures. I don't deny that I have worldly pleasures. If I didn't, I'd be in a convent right now; I'd leave this world behind. But, I do know what the Holy Fathers teach. They teach that the goal of our lives is to attain the Holy Spirit. But, to do that, we have to become dispassionate to this world; and that means everything of this world.

St. Alexis, the man of God, even left his family behind. He lived only for God. We, in the world, have become so saturated with fantasy, all around us, such as t.v., movies, reading non-Orthodox books, sports, and more, that we are holding onto a thread of faith. We have one foot in the world and one in faith.

This world promotes fantasy and imagination. It also promotes dreams. The saints taught that a person who dreams is due to an unsettle soul. I'm not talking about dreams of visitations of the saints. God created us and therefore has access to us, even during sleep. But, dreams formed by fantasy. All that left over stuff of the world.

And yes, the imagination can help a person invent something beneficial for the world, like indoor plumbing, but it's for the world. When we die, we don't take the benefit of plumbing or a new solar energy with us, we take our souls and if that person was an atheist...his imagination that discovered the cure for cancer will not be in judgement, but his lack of believing in Jesus Christ will be. He can cure the whole world, but if he doesn't believe in Christ as the Messiah, then he has lost his soul.

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Post by ania »

As far as worry and imagination...
When I travel by myself by car, (usually covering more than 1000 miles in one trip, be it to Boston or Miami), my parents and I both imagined all sorts of possible situations where I would not reach my destination, and because we worried enough to imagine it, I took steps to preventing any of the possible situations.
Imagination causes worry, which kicks in our survival instinct, which protects us.

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Post by joasia »

Ania,

I think your reference applies more to preventitive measures which is the result of common sense.

It's more along the line of knowing that if there is a slick road and you're driving at night, that you shouldn't speed. Or not to tailgate. Such things are gained by learning about consequences. It doesn't take any imagination to know these things, just common sense.

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