joasia wrote:In response to Inco's determined view that the struggle of the souls, at death, is a fabrication and there are no demons that try to take our souls(or even those with Grace), please read this link. On another post, he/she referenced The Evergetinos. The initial subject was about obedience, but I found some interesting exerpts about our confrontation with the demons of the air. From the source that Inco values as true Orthodox dogma, he/she also seems to ignore what they teach about our state at death. Protestants tend to do that too. Pick and choose is not the Orthodox Christian mentality. It's all or nothing.
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/death/death ... tinos.aspx
There is material from the Fathers and the Scriptures you are ignoring that millitates against the toll houses. Some Orthodox today seem to have a condescending view of Scripture, and this is tragic. And you are ignoring the arguments I have given that refute the texts you appeal to.
(1) metaphors, (2) references added to some writer's works by others after their deaths, (3) pseudoepigraphica, that is writing ascribed to someone, but not actually written by that person, or (4) references that were current in a given era under certain influences of that era, but actually contradictory to the established dogma and doctrine of the Orthodox Church, (5) Gnostic influence, (6) the Father's theology on the nature of the soul, body, and the afterlife do not allow for a toll house concept, (7) the Scriptures do not teach or allow for toll houses, etc.
The material you appeal to about toll houses is disputed or not meant to be taken literally. No one disputes the teaching of the Fathers in the Evergetinos on obedience. The Orthodox teaching on obedience, is found in multiple sources and multiple Fathers. You have never read monastic material so you don't know about this teaching on obedience.
You need to read the books I recommended before. Untill you do this, you are opperating from incomplete knowledge. I'm not discussing this with you untill you read those books, because at this point you don't have enough information to have an educated opinion on the subject.
The toll house theory is a teaching of man and the devil as an attempt to paint a bad picture of God by making Him malicious, and to keep men in fear and religious bondage and darkness; and it gives the devil too much credit and power. People who believe in a literal toll house theory, need to because it suits their personalities. They do not know God or have what I call "God Consciousness," because someone who really knows God, understands He is not a sadistic psychopath.