Also, I think there is a great deal of material from Father Seraphim's book "The Soul After Death," that Azkoul and Lazar didn't even address. They might be guilty of the fallacy of suppressing evidence which millitates against their arguments.
Archbishop Lazar seems to be an angry person. Whenever I have brought up the toll houses to him, he almost loses it. He seems to have little patience.
My step-dad was a sick and sadistic psychopath. He didn't allow me to show any joy or happiness. He always wanted to keep me down. He had to always be in control of my emotions and state of mind. I believe the people who invented the toll house teaching were just like that. They wanted to control people and keep them down and in religious bondage and darkness. Only someone raised with a psychopath could understand how they think.
At death, we will be surrounded by love, not demons. The toll house teaching is a last attempt by men to keep people in fear and control. This is evil. They do not want people to realize the freedom and liberation that is found in Christ.
"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." [Romans 8:1].
From a theologian
Fr Seraphim and some others offer "proof texts," isolated citations, and some of them do not at all teach what he claims they do. We know when and how this teaching began to drift into the vocabulary of some writers, and we know it historically. On the other hand, those who realise that the toll house teaching is not Orthodox take the whole picture into account, and not a collection of "prooftexts" taken out of context. St Antony the Great also refutes the teaching of toll houses in his discussion about the powerlessness of demons. You see, one has to take into account some very important facts: first of all, if the teaching was Orthodox, then the prayers for the funeral and the Memorial (pannikhida; peomana; parastas) prayers would most certainly contain direct references to it. Also, the toll house doctrine creats radical internal contradictions in the firmly established dogma of the Orthodox Church. It elevates demons to such authority that they can inject and prevent Christ from being the sole judge of the human person. It denies that "all things have been placed under him" ( 1Cor.15:27) that he is given ALL POWER is given unto Him in heaven and in earth" ( Mt.28:18). The toll house teaching asserts that God does not have all power, that Satan and the demons have the power to judge the soul and keep Christ from being able to do it. But how should the demons be able to accuse us when they are liars and "there is no truth in them" because he is a "liar and a murderer from the beginning" (Jn.8:44). So how is it that God is so powerless and so helpless that our souls should rather be judged and condemned by a liar and murderer who has no truth in him? Do you see the utter madness of those who contend that the aerial toll house teaching is a doctrine of the Orthodox Church?
If you wish, I will be happy to send you three books that explain this further, and demonstrate from the Holy Fathers that, the scattered "proof-texts" of the toll-housers notwithstanding, are (1) metaphors distorted by them, (2) references added to some writer's works by others after their deaths, (3) pseudoepigraphica, that is writing ascribed to someone, but not actually written by that person, or (4) references that were current in a given era under certain influences of that era, but actually contradictory to the established dogma and doctrine of the Orthodox Church.
In response to Inco's determined view that the struggle of the souls, at death, is a fabrication and there are no demons that try to take our souls(or even those with Grace), please read this link. On another post, he/she referenced The Evergetinos. The initial subject was about obedience, but I found some interesting exerpts about our confrontation with the demons of the air. From the source that Inco values as true Orthodox dogma, he/she also seems to ignore what they teach about our state at death. Protestants tend to do that too. Pick and choose is not the Orthodox Christian mentality. It's all or nothing.
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)
joasia wrote:In response to Inco's determined view that the struggle of the souls, at death, is a fabrication and there are no demons that try to take our souls(or even those with Grace), please read this link. On another post, he/she referenced The Evergetinos. The initial subject was about obedience, but I found some interesting exerpts about our confrontation with the demons of the air. From the source that Inco values as true Orthodox dogma, he/she also seems to ignore what they teach about our state at death. Protestants tend to do that too. Pick and choose is not the Orthodox Christian mentality. It's all or nothing.
There is material from the Fathers and the Scriptures you are ignoring that millitates against the toll houses. Some Orthodox today seem to have a condescending view of Scripture, and this is tragic. And you are ignoring the arguments I have given that refute the texts you appeal to.
(1) metaphors, (2) references added to some writer's works by others after their deaths, (3) pseudoepigraphica, that is writing ascribed to someone, but not actually written by that person, or (4) references that were current in a given era under certain influences of that era, but actually contradictory to the established dogma and doctrine of the Orthodox Church, (5) Gnostic influence, (6) the Father's theology on the nature of the soul, body, and the afterlife do not allow for a toll house concept, (7) the Scriptures do not teach or allow for toll houses, etc.
The material you appeal to about toll houses is disputed or not meant to be taken literally. No one disputes the teaching of the Fathers in the Evergetinos on obedience. The Orthodox teaching on obedience, is found in multiple sources and multiple Fathers. You have never read monastic material so you don't know about this teaching on obedience.
You need to read the books I recommended before. Untill you do this, you are opperating from incomplete knowledge. I'm not discussing this with you untill you read those books, because at this point you don't have enough information to have an educated opinion on the subject.
The toll house theory is a teaching of man and the devil as an attempt to paint a bad picture of God by making Him malicious, and to keep men in fear and religious bondage and darkness; and it gives the devil too much credit and power. People who believe in a literal toll house theory, need to because it suits their personalities. They do not know God or have what I call "God Consciousness," because someone who really knows God, understands He is not a sadistic psychopath.
