In Response To Slander Of Elder Ephraim

[Tessa]

You MUST understand that obedience of the type discussed in the pertinent texts are for all of the TRUE monastics and those who aspire more than the normal Sunday afternoon coffee clutch after their "expedited liturgy." BTW, do you think God will use a differenbt measuring stick for laity than for monks on Judgement Day? Or, do we have two bibles, one for monks and one for laity? Or, did the Holy Fathers write for monks only and not for all Orthodox Christians?

BRAVO!

-t

[Justin Kissel]

BTW, do you think God will use a differenbt measuring stick for laity than for monks on Judgement Day?

It goes far beyond that. He will use a different measuring stick for each and every one of us. There is an absolute morality against which we will be judged, but God will still take into account the various factors in our lives. As St. Gregory the Theologian put it:

It is better both to attain the good and to keep the purification. But if it be impossible to do both it is surely better to be a little stained with your public affairs than to fall altogether short of grace; just as I think it better to undergo a slight punishment from father or master than to be put out of doors; and to be a little beamed upon than to be left in total darkness. And it is the part of wise men to choose, as in good things the greater and more perfect, so in evils the lesser and lighter. Wherefore do not overmuch dread the purification. For our success is always judged by comparison with our place in life by our just and merciful Judge; and often one who is in public life and has had small success has had a greater reward than one who in the enjoyment of liberty has not completely succeeded; as I think it more marvellous for a man to advance a little in fetters, than for one to run who is not carrying any weight; or to be only a little spattered in walking through mud, than to be perfectly clean when the road is clean. To give you a proof of what I have said:- Rahab the harlot was justified by one thing alone, her hospitality, though she receives no praise for the rest of her conduct; and the Publican was exalted by one thing, his humility, though he received no testimony for anything else; so that you may learn not easily to despair concerning yourself. - Oration 40, 19

[Kollyvas]

https://listserv.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/wa ... &S=&P=7122

...The point is NOT whether what Mr. Smith claims about his experiences at St. Anthony's are true or not--I think we've all gotten to a point of realizing he is unbalanced, to say the least, and his credibility is shot--the point is, rather, that he does NOT speak truthfully about the monastery, and he is NOT an example of the beneficial effect that close contact with the monastic life can have on a person. Nor is he even an example of someone who does NOT benefit from the monastic experience--he is simply an example of a man who is unbalanced, and goes to extremes no matter what he's involved in--one day this, the next day that. So, those "anti-monastics" on the List (Pokrov, HC, et al) are mistaking the rantings of an unstable man
for what can happen if you frequent monasteries. Just silly....

[Kollyvas]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox- ... sage/72257

Seraphim-
I agree with you. I haven't been silent about the fact that I think
Pokrov has a hidden agenda (I've used their own words to support
this claim, though). I also agree 100% that this is not what GEronta
would want. Many people have wanted to seek to shut down pages like
Pokrov, sue the National HErald etc, and he will hear nothing of the
sort. Honestly it does not touch the man in any way. My problem
is, as a spiritual child who KNOWS FOR A FACT THEY ARE PRINTING
LIES, my blood pressure rises, and I get upset that people continue
to regurgitate the same garbage over and over. If you look at
Pokrov, Rick ROss or any of the other places, they are re-
circulating the Pantanizopoulos/Fanny Pappas stories (2 sets of
parents who seem to be unwilling to let their adult children make a
life choice -- what about the hundreds of other parents who visit
their children frequently and rejoice in their child's happiness at
realizing and acting upon a calling to serve Christ so completely?)
You also have the National Herald, a rag that gets it;s facts so
messed up they don't know which end is up; you have Paul Cromidas, a
man with an OCL agenda, and you have Lev Puhalo's claims of people
(who are notably silent publicly -- they only seem to speak through
him) of marriage being "dirty" and that garbage. Over the past
decade it's been the same handful of people saying the same stuff,
occasionally re-hashed and served up again and again and again.
These people aren't going to stop. And on most days, I don't care.
But when places like Pokrov put something out there, where the first
thing you see on their "Ephraim page" is a link to Rick Ross,
heterodox cult expert extraordinaire, that reeks of bias so bad, I
can't even stand it. The thing that kills me, t hough, is that they
say they are presenting material from "both sides". They have laid
out the conclusion they WANT the reader to draw, I wish they would
have the gumption to own up to it rather than say they are
presenting both sides, when the few supportive articles they DO
print are underneath the RICK ROSS link. Hello, McFLY! I mean do
they really think anyone is not going to be tainted after reading
someone give the conclusion that the monasteries are cults? UGH.
I've grown tangential again so I am going to step off my soap box
now.
Maria A Christodoulou

--- In orthodox-tradition@yahoogroups.com, Seraphim Patterson
<serafim@c...> wrote:
Hello everyone,

As you all know, I think that Pokrov's inclusion of Fr. Ephraim on
their web site is abhorrent. I have already mentioned that people
have told me that Fr. Ephraim must be doing something horrible since
he is on Pokrov. People have said as much on this very list! The
fact that he is on a different section with a bunch of disclaimers
makes no difference to some. Pokrov has directly caused a number of
people to suspect Fr. Ephraim of abuse by putting him on their site.
And why? Because a non-orthodox person said that his monasteries fit
his criteria of a cult (which any traditional Orthodox monastery
would). Have their been accusations of abuse there? No! Has anything
illegal happened there? No! So, we will continue to wonder why he
has been placed on the Pokrov site, and the women of Pokrov will
continue to give us their pat non-answers. This could go on forever.

However, as I see the temperature rise on this thread (and I am
adding to it, I admit!)I cannot help but think that Fr. Ephraim
himself would not approve. I think Pokrov and their supporters are
unreachable at this time, so all of the appeals to reason and and to
basic Orthodox decency and decorum will do no good. I am not
speaking as the moderator. I am not necessarily ending the thread.
However, my personal opinion is that maybe it is reached a point of
diminishing returns. After all, Fr. Ephraim has not bothered to
complain about his presence there in Pokrov's rogue gallery. Maybe
he sees it as beneficial for his soul, to be maligned in this way.
Who are we to say?

Seraphim

[Kollyvas]

I maintain enough of a public presence here to be accesible to anyone. This is the site I am on. Moreover, I have made it a point to eschew contact with "ephraimites" or those who claim to be/have been. If there is anyone who has an issue with how I have gone about unmasking slander of the Elder (people who have never done anything for the monasteries nor had any real contact with the Elder) or exposing mr. puhalo, I will be more than happy to discuss it with them here. I will speak with anyone who has an issue regarding this and any other topic and who is not effeminate (a task, I know), but, rather, has the courage of his convictions to do more than gossip or issue innuendo. As I have been mentioned on other groups and assaulted, I have made it a point to notify the pastors of the cads in question and I have responsibly cut off all their associates. But, no, the judas, david smith will not be coddled, nor will I spare any quarter in exposing the author of this assault on the Elder or mr. puhalo's cohorts. fr. mccuen's work becomes more and more an embarassment.
ORTHODOXIA I THANATOS!
Rostislav Mikhailovich Malleev-Pokrovsky
Incidentally, certain parties should ask MOSCHIONISI who he is. I would wager you'd find an older Greek man, not ashamed of his love and devotion to the Elder, probably a member of the Brotherhood of St. Poimen. Perhaps even a restaraunteur. I am not him. Compare ISPs next time. I do find it offensive his efforts to defend the monasteries and interdict true enemies of Orthodoxy are now under assault. He did more than supposed "real friends of david smith" to discredit that liar and defend the monasteries than limpwristed coddlers of someone ready to tear down Orthodox institutions on a whim/for an agenda. Moreover, his forthrightness in setting straight "former" uniates who do not respect Orthodox sanctuaries seems to have been effective, for only the ad hominem is where their interchanges with him lie. I wish I had done what he did, and I take my hat off to him and his intensity. new calendarist ecumenists and other human embarassments are sternly alerted. It's clear whom you serve. Your assault on the Elder has failed and your side is discredited--I revel in your defeat.

Again, Antiochian, GOA, etc. people who have a problem with me, I am more than comfortable confronting. I relish the idea. What is it that you feel I've said in the past concerning Orthodoxy which was wrong? Do tell. Why is it you and your ilk, with egg all over your face, now engage in ad hominem attack on others to salvage something of your slander of the Elder?! Would you and your kind coddle judas or satan and show them love?! Quite possibly, but stated enemies who wish ill to the Church we have already seen in Russia. The martyrdoms of millions for the FAITH show the persecutors' fruits. You stand with that spirit and preach some licentious "love" in its name. You would betray Christ with a kiss. You can love these enemies of Orthodoxy after they are stopped (which cause you have done nothing to aid, but rather encouraged and fomented the enemies' persecution and slanders, justifying their pride and plunging their souls further into the abyss.) if you like, but why is it you don't want them to be stopped? Reminds me of the trash riff raff in liberal jurisdictions used to say in regard to the New Martyrs years ago: "that the Russian church underwent a 'holy purification,' being purged of negative, reactionary elements (like HNM GD Elizabeth)." To you all who espouse "cafeteria Orthodoxy," show me your Saints, show me your Fathers, show me your Orthodox witness, not witch hunts for the murderers of kirov. Your "kirov" YOU aided and abetted in his "self-righteous suicide," and now you want to wipe the blood on your hands on faithful Orthodox Christians?! How in character. YOU murdered your brother by encouraging his spiritual descent--not me, none of us, close the doors of the churches to TRUE penitents, but why do you open them to sin and the way of death. Again, you are ignorantly out of line. BTW, I'm NOT Greek.

For the record, an email I sent to fr. mccuen regarding the activities of one of his parishoners (and, no, this isn't the first time he's been alerted.):

Below is something I've found to be typical of your endeavours in this state. I've never found anything spiritually edifying about you and your congregation. Your pettiness becomes ever more revealed with the passing of time. Your foundation can bear no good fruit and I'm delighted I shook off my sandals long ago. May God preserve you. I have to answer for much, but your cross I would never want to bear. You are a fitting representative of Fr. Komarovsky.
ORTHODOXIA I THANATOS
Rostislav Mikhailovich Malleev-Pokrovsky


Here are the fruits of your pastorship, what you vandals have done to the legacy of ROCOR:

From Orthodox Forum on Yahoo.
50250 From: "gkeyodis" <gkyodis@...>
Date: Wed Nov 23, 2005 0:53am
Subject: Credibility

If I'm not mistaken, somewhere in Niphon's writings and posts he said Rostislav Michael Zachary was his best friend for a while. By all indications, Christ's probable best friend was St. John the Apostle. Big difference in character and credibility. Yes, unfortunately this reflects on the credibility of Mr. Smith.



From: "gkeyodis" <gkyodis@...>

Date: Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:40pm

Subject: To put things in perspective Re: 7 year resident David Smith gkeyodis

Evlogeite.

Harry Coin wrote:

"David has written that there is only one other person with whom he

has shared experiences, has published their view and has made a

response to it as you can see from the links provided if you care to

look here:"

---

Just FYI. This isn't true that he only told one person.

Fortunately for Niphon, the one person he says he told things to is

nuts and has no credibility. But then again, no one is wondering

why tho, his best friend was Rostislav to begin with. (Just ask

Bishop Tikhon about Rostislav)

Niphon talked with many people during his 3 year sojourn here in

Arizona. Maybe he doesn't remember all the conversations he had

with them, but I know ....... I'm one of them and I know of a few

others to boot.

If there is something immoral going on at the monasteries than I am

the first to say that the people should step forward and the

perpetrator should step down from whatever position he has. It's

just that I personally know Niphon, enough that he still has my home

phone number ....... and I personally think he has no credibility.

From my vantage point, his spinning of half truths definitively

resides in the realm of lies.

Also, when he hysterically calls my home, the day after my first

post to the Indiana List, and proceeds within a 24 second period to

use profanity a mere 22 times at the top of his lungs and then ends

by threatening me if I, "expose any of his S_ _ _", again, I have to

say, he has no credibility with me.

Respectfully,

Gregory Yodis[/color]

The wonderful spite and vitriole showered upon me in absentia (such "courage"!)for stepping forward to help do what others could not/would not. Someone was lecturing on "loving approaches" or something pc like that. Lots of love to share here.--R

[koufitsa22]

I got this from Kostas M. in an e-mail he sent and I'm placing it in this group discussion room. I'm not a member in Indiana so I can't put it there and it looks like he's got good basis here that if you stick up for the monks and the Geronda Ephraim, and fight those heretical priests, or that fake bishop puhalo and his boy, kostaki the reader, then the moderators shut you off and keep you away. American fairness, I guess.

{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}

Dear Mr. Koufitsa:

Greetings from America!

As you can see, the Indiana Orthodox List, has also prevented me from replying to the "fraud" allegations by the Antiochian clergy person from Ben Lomond. This shocked me as the list is being moderated by a ROCOR priest, unless I am wrong.

In any case it is interesting because here is an Orthodox priest (Fr. George Washburn) whose own past has some peculiarities and he has experience with being treated unjustly by the media or by prevailing circumstances; yet he did NOT come to the side of the persecuted monastics and clearly demonstrated the typical apathy one observes in our days. Soft words for soft minds and the usual politically correct discussions.

I do not recall whether you had heard in your Canada days about the split in Ben Lomond, but the priest in question was part of one of the two sides (and I do believe, btw, that he was on the

[DavidHawthorne]

BTW, do you think God will use a differenbt measuring stick for laity than for monks on Judgement Day?

It goes far beyond that. He will use a different measuring stick for each and every one of us. There is an absolute morality against which we will be judged, but God will still take into account the various factors in our lives. As St. Gregory the Theologian put it

Thank you, Justin, for posting this- I liked the way you expressed a different measuring stick for each of us and the quote from St. Gregory was very edifying