Thoughts on World Orthodoxy and ROCOR

DIscussion and News concerning Orthodox Churches in communion with those who have fallen into the heresies of Ecumenism, Renovationism, Sergianism, and Modernism, or those Traditional Orthodox Churches who are now involved with Name-Worshiping, or vagante jurisdictions. All Forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.


Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

anastasios

Again, we can't lump all Orthodox "ecumenists" together in one pot.

I agree, sorry for over-generalizing.

He and some of the other Orthodox ecumenists I have met are very heart-felt, very devout personally, and very much want to bring others to the Truth, which is why they subject themselves to years of frustration.

But this doesn't make them, or their activities, correct (ie. orthodox). Their intentions and piety are besides the point. I'm sure that many schismatics and heretics in history had every intention of "teaching the truth" to others, and I'm sure that many of them appeared pious (though without divine grace, it was only a piety achieved through worldly means, not divine means). I'm sure many of the ecumenists could put poor Paradosis to shame in terms of fasting, Church attendance, prayer time, etc. Piety and good intentions can't take a bad thing (a pan-heresy) and turn it into a good thing, however.

Academic, intellectual types do exist, but they aren't in Church doing prostrations, fasting, and singing in the choir regularly. "Academic types" (the true ones that I have met--I am not denying they exist) are the types that are infrequently in chapel, or when there they are "analyzing" it more than participating. God forgive me for judging even these "academic types" if I am guilty of such, but I believe I am merely stating an observation.

It's been my observation that most of world Orthodoxy is filled with "intellectual, academic types," it's just that some have the education to manifest this attitude with fancy and lofty theological language (the Schmemann's of the world), while the rest just follow the Schmemann's of the world and treat them as modern-day saints. It's no coincidence that Schmemann was the intellectual, academic type par excellence (with his revised liturgical theology, rebuking of saints, hypocritical attacks on the canonicity of his brothers, etc.), and that he is one of the most revered modern theologians by those in world Orthodoxy today. People also "give a nod" to Fr. Seraphim... until they find out what he really thought. Same thing with Justin Popovich. By "intellectual, academic types" I don't mean the people who are spending ours in the library studying and no using enough time for prayer and so forth. I'm talking about an overall spirit or tone.

I think that you have a fantasy (in the true, sincere sense of the word) of what life is like at seminaries, WCC meetings, New Calendrist Synodal meetings, etc.

Not at all. I'm sure it's very boring and humdrum at meetings. At the seminaries, I'm pretty sure that I know what it would be like as I've heard enough about the teachings of various seminaries. Fr. Seraphim said that all the seminaries (except Jordanville) were modernist back 20 years ago... what would he say now that people were using (outdated even!) Protestant theories of the Old Testament authorship and so forth? (to name just one strange thing I've heard on the cafe and oc.net regarding what's going on)

even if you come away still believing the St. Vladimir's Seminary way to be unOrthodox, you will at least have first hand knowledge and experience.

Your offer is kind, but I don't think that would go very well. Not at this point in my life, anyway. Thanks for offering, though. /\

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