Monks Robes

[Catherine5]

Why not focus on the good in what this man said instead of preaching to him a huge sermon?!

Clothes ARE important as statements of where our souls are. After all, those who follow modern fashion trends are those very attached to the world. People who choose black, a timeless color, or dark colors for their attire are clearly keeping a low profile and not needing attention from humans. Clothes are an example to others, as well. I read recently of a convent of just a few nuns which attracted a lot of attention in the Northwest due to people seeing the nuns in town and wanting to ask questions.

But I believe we should spend time to examine other aspects, such as our speech patterns. How many Orthodox unconsciously and mistakenly in my opinion, copy-cat all the current trendy ways of speaking: using meaningless words like "awesome", or expressions like "you're good to go", OR: "I'm running late", "I got held up" to excuse their own responsibility in being late. Think about it: do you want to affirm that you could be 'held up' by robbers, or were demons chasing you and that's why you were 'running late'?

There are many examples, I can't even remember them now because I never would use one of these corny phrases.

Also the intonation of sentences: that annoying way that Americans of the last maybe 10 or 15 years have of ending every statement as though it's a question. Why not keep the tone of the entire sentence on the same pitch? It's just a cultural habit, but it really sounds strange. Could we imagine Saintly exemplars for our time speaking like that? There's always a slightly demanding note as well which sounds unappealing at best.

Why not sanitize our speech habits, to sound as though we are individuals with our own UNIQUE patterns and ways - and outfits - whether proto-monastic or not ! - rather than robotic clones trying to follow the herd and please one's crowd, rather than to please God.

[Varsanufios]

Naturaly,if person who are belever no metter does he have intention to go and become a monk in some monastery.Must try to dress himself humblyest as he can.
Again clothess is refliction of spiritual life of christans(orthodox).But long hair and beard is sometimes refliction of tendentions to live life in way that does do monks in monastery.But mot always.

[Incognito1583]

Actually, it's the opposite.

You speak as someone who has never worn a monastic robe. Try it sometime and you will see how it helps your spiritual life.

The Pharisees thought they were spiritually superior because of their position and clothes they wore in order to identify themselves as priests of the House of Worship.

Actually, Christ condemned them because of how they broadened their phylacteries, made long prayers for show, were hypocrites and white washed sepulchers.

Jesus even pointed that out.

Christ never said anything about their robers per se. But you are assuming I would be a hypocrite like the pharisees. I don't want to wear a white robe.

But, He didn't dress differently from the citzens.

They all wore robes, which is what I want to do. But the Gospels don't specifically state how he dressed. I'm sure if he was in the world today, he wouldn't go around wearing jeans.

That's why most people, at that time, with embelished ideas, thought he was a regular man.

The Gospels don't state their disbelief was due to his clothing. Rather, the pharisees thought he was a false Messiah because of his claims to equality with God (deity), etc.

We are also taught that we shouldn't make a big deal about when we fast. Some Orthodox people like to exaggerate their condition by emphasizing how tired or burdened they are because they are fasting. That's another type of outward dress.

I agree with that.

You want to identify yourself as a monk although you have not been tonsured as one. This is a decision you are making for yourself. Have you discussed this with your spiritual father?

Not necessarily as a monk. Just a robe. I haven't decided this. That's why I came here asking questions. I don't have a spiritual father because everyone within a 3,000 mile radius is an ecumenistic heretic.

It's what's inside that counts. Please recognize the trap of pride that has been set up for you, by the Deceiver.

You assume this would make me prideful. The exact opposite is the case. It would help me in the detachment process.

When the monastic saints were still in the world, they dressed like the rest(moderately, of course), but they hid their lifestyles, from the world.

Did they go around in jeans? The world is different today. Our society is impius and under the complete control of the devil. Modern clothing has the stamp of secular humanism written all over it.

So if you want to live a humble life, in the Orthodox faith, then live it in secret, for God will see your efforts, but if you announce it to men, by dressing as a monk(which you are not), then you have received your reward, in this life. And that means that you do not want to wait for God's reward and are giving it to yourself, right now. That is the essence of pride. And that is the same like Adam who wanted his reward of knowledge, at that moment, instead of waiting for God to give it to him, which God would have given. But, Adam wanted it now and look where that got him.

Spiritual life is not compartmentalized. Why do monks wear robes anyway? Give that some thought before you answer.

Your view is the same as a friend of mine. He had grand expectations of becoming a monk and you know what....he started dressing all in black because he wanted to appear monastic. He thought that his outward appearance would set him apart from this decadent world and he could focus his mind. But, he was just clothing his body. He didn't realize that he had to focus on his soul which is not seen by man, but only by God. So he went to the extreme. And what happened? He was completely disillusioned by the monks around him and left Orthodoxy.

You have too many assumptions here. You are assuming he and myself have the same goals and intentions. The fact he left Orthodoxy proves he was already a total flake.

You see, the clothing doesn't determine our state of mind...the disposition of our souls does.

Orthodoxy is an aesthetic religion. The art, music and churches are structured in a way to elevate the soul. You think like a Protestant. Everything we see and experience has an effect on the disposition of the soul, even clothing. Pius clothing helps the mind focus on the spiritual life.

And we need to look inward, in order to reconnect with God. When did Jesus ever teach about coming to God by what we wear?

He didn't. So the idea of wearing a robe, like he did, is open.

He even gave an example about the Pharisees who focused on washing the outside of the cup, but the inside is dirty.

You are assuming my inside would be dirty. Again, you have too many assumptions.

Everything we try to show outwardly is our own pride.

I don't want to show outwardly. I want to aid my own mind in the thoughts of God. If I had it my way, I would be a recluse deep in the forest away from everyone.

Do you think Christ is going to wear a pair of jeans and a tee shirt when he returns in glory? We are to emulate him as much as possible. And he wore a robe. I don't believe in compartmentalized spirituality; That monks do this and we lay people do that. We are all called to the monastic ideal.

[Incognito1583]

I have a belief (theory) that comes from much prayer, contemplation, reflection and experience. I believe eveything a person sees and experiences, creates a brain or mind frequency for the better or for the worst. Secular society has the secular or humanistic imprint on everything it creates. The music, art, clothing architecture, automobiles, cities, etc is all after the imprint and pattern of humanism. There is no divine aesthetic beauty in anything secular pagan society creates. The result of all this is a modern civilization that is becoming more and more atheistic, secular, humanistic, mentally ill, and lost. Atheism is higher in large cities. I believe dead inorganic matter like concrete, plastics, and everything else cities are made of, creates a low level brain frequncy that keeps a persons thoughts and consciousness locked into the world, zeitgeist, and the world of the passions. I have lived in large cities, and I have lived so deep in the forest without electricity. In nature, where everything is living, animate and beautiful, the soul is naturally nurished and the consciousness and brain frequency it creates elevates the soul to divine contemplation. This is why in every ancient culture and tribe where people lived in jungles and forests, they all had a belief in God, god's or the ultimate spirit. When I lived on my parents property (we had no electricity untill we got a generator), I felt God's presence so strongly. I can't explain this. When I look at contemporary society, I see the imprint of secular humanism and Antichrist written on everything. Like Saint Macarius the Great said, we should seek physical relocation out of the worldly system. It is virtully impossible for Christians to stay focussed on God while living in a pagan society that lowers the consciousness and creates brain frequencies that only effect our moods, perceptions, attitudes and spiritual life. I believe technology creates spiritually lazy people, and only serves to hinder our potential. God calls us to true humanity. The world always calls us to the opposite. I believe the Antichrist is behind everything we see in society today. It's a form of thought and mind control. He wants our thoughts to be off of God. He controls how people think like pulling the strings of a puppet, by constantly flooding our sense perceptions with secular matter and Godless technologies. He is trying to make people so spiritually dead, that when he arrives there will be no hostile resistence to the false religion he will create. With the grace of God and a heart resolute to overcome, we can achive mastery over this evil system. For "greater is He that is in you, then he that is in the world." (1John 4:4).

[Incognito1583]

Maybe, by Thom Pace

I really like this song. When he says "Deep inside the forest there's a door into another land," I interpret that to mean paradise or heaven. When I look at the forest, I see paradise. When I look at the city, I see Hell.

[Incognito1583]

Years ago, I was a novice at a monastery for a couple months. I had reasons why I left.

[Constantine]

Dear Incognito, my opinion as worthless as it is, is to perhaps clean the inside of the cup, not the outiside.

Hoping all is well with you.

Constantine