"Old Calendar Ecumenism" or Responsible Orthodoxy?

[Suaidan]

I see...that I am quite confused! I think this is out of my depth. All I know is that I don't know a lot and that it seems I am going to forever (in this life) going to be considered a bit slow by those who get it. I am trying to understand the positions outlined but it makes my head spin, to be honest. It was so much simpler in the old world: One visible Orthodox Church. Aaaaahhhhhh. To be able to have had St Ignatius of Antioch, or St Pachomios or St Sisoes as my spiritual father, or to at least have been a member in good standing in a parish church in their communion! Then I would not be worrying my sore head so much! I found this video which I watched yesterday which is a study on the canonicity and teaching of Metr. Evloghios. It makes it all so simple and clear, like it used to be in the One True Church of the ancient world. What do you all think about it?

Yep, and with that I'm about done. If this discussion is going to involve appealing to videos by Archbishop Gregory "of Colorado, America, and, well, earth", I think I have really just run out of things to say.

[joasia]

The history of the Orthodox Church has always been riddled with arguments of the question of grace. There has always been schisms, of one kind or another. The Greeks have had plenty of heated debates about this back through the centuries and it was not simple. So, why must we repeat the same arguments when we have history to teach us what is right? Step back from pride and review what is being said.

From what I see here, I think that the posters want the other to relinquish their position and admit defeat. How about approaching it from a different angle? Admit what is true in the statement and work from there, however small you may think it is. Build up on that.

We are in Great Lent, gentlemen. At least during this time, try to exercise some self-control of emotions. You're not doing any good for yourselves, spiritually, if you harbor such aggressive attitudes. How can you pray with contrition when you have such venom in your souls? How can you receive Christ's Body and Blood with repentance when you express such anger? Look at the bigger picture...repentance is our focus in life. We all want to be with Christ in the truth. If we all focused on repentance, then we will all come to the same point of agreement. And the differences will disappear. Repentance brings us together because then we are of the same mind in Christ.

[Suaidan]

HE MENTIONED ME?????

So here's a list of everything Gregory gets wrong. Especially, being that this video is a week old, discounts all of the events of the past two years

• -gets countries wrong (Spain and Portugal were under Portugal, Lisbon is in Portugal)
  -implies Abp Auxentios went to trial for the Portuguese (false)
  -"Monophysite" Epistle was written by someone else, denied authorship, letter was formally suppressed in Synod
  -Random slurs about "going where there is no place to go," no basis
  -Metr Evloghios repeatedly denied masonry over the years, further we anathematized Masons for decades in our Archdioceses (now the Metropolia)
  -This claim of Metr Evloghios inviting people to the lodge is a made-up claim
  -Hey! I got mentioned!?!?! (He didn't mention I was for a short time in ROAC under Dormition Skete, and was part of the group in ROAC who fought to have Gregory removed): Married once, legal name "Joseph Mahomond" due to 20th century clerical error, family name is "Suaiden", there is no "Mohammed Suaiden", or at least none running NFTU. I am not in the Milan Synod. I guess he's still angry.
  -Giovanni Mapelli was removed from episcopate upon discovery
  -Milan has no communion with any of the Churches in Greece, Russia or Bulgaria, and wants nothing to do with them

Symeon, your opening was so polite I had no idea you picked a video that actually slandered me, and I was really just trying to be helpful for your sake, since you asked. I am not sure how to say how... how -- oh forget it, I won't say it. I am simply in awe, and kind of sick now.

[Matthew]

Dear Fr. Dcn Josephy, forgive me, but is important WHO did the video? I thought that the only thing that matters is this: Is what he said took place what indeed took place? He seems to present facts and names and statements that were made and he seems to have the documentation so I am simply asking people to review the video and help me come to some verifiable idea about if the information is accurate or not. I don't really care if this video was presented by Cyprian of Fili, or Fr. Panteliemon of Boston, or any other figure people love to hate. I simply want us to focus on the facts in an arena of fair play and gentlemanly civilized respect. I would be willing to hear out anyone, no matter how maligned, because everyone in our country and culture that follows magna carta and common law is to get a fair hearing among his equals and peers. That is exactly what I was appealing when I asked Lukianos to soften his tone and give Fr Deacon Joseph the benefit of the doubt and to let him express his view in an atmosphere where he would feel respected and listened to in a real and helpful way. We need to be kind to each other. I cannot say that I am very comfortable with what you have said so far. Fr. Joseph about the Grace of Mysteries NOT being contiguous with the borders of the Church since that sounds entirely Cyprianite to what I was taught about the Church and Grace and Mysteries--BUT I have been committed to trying and will continue to try to respect you and give you every ounce of attention and respect I can in hearing you through. So, I think it consistent to expect the same to be accorded to others including Archbishop Gregory. How else will we heal the wounds we all would like to see healed? and Who ever said it would be pleasant or easy? It will certainly cost us something and in my books that price includes listening to people honestly who we may not really enjoy or agree with in terms of their choice of words or ideas. And I admit that Archbishop Gregory does put things in rather unadorned terms, and that this is not appealing to many people. But at least nobody can be in doubt about where he stands, dancing this way and that, or saying things that seem like doublespeak; something I myself have done at times but seek to avoid by being cautious and a careful listener and slow and thoughtful in my responses. Again, I ask your corrections to anything I have said, only put it in simple terms since I guess I am a bit thick sometimes.

Symeon

[Suaidan]

Dear Fr. Dcn Josephy, forgive me, but is important WHO did the video? I thought that the only thing that matters is this: Is what he said took place what indeed took place? He seems to present facts and names and statements that were made and he seems to have the documentation so I am simply asking people to review the video and help me come to some verifiable idea about if the information is accurate or not. I don't really care if this video was presented by Cyprian of Fili, or Fr. Panteliemon of Boston, or any other figure people love to hate. I simply want us to focus on the facts in an arena of fair play and gentlemanly civilized respect.

CUTTING OUT YOUR RESPONSE. I HAVE ALREADY POINTED OUT THE ERRORS. AND YOU PICKED A VIDEO WHICH LIED ABOUT MY NAME, MARITAL STATE, AND WHO ORDAINED ME.

I AM FINISHED.

[Matthew]

Look Fr Joseph, I was not trying to take a shot at you? I know now how stupid I was to bring it up but I was trying to find out what all the heat was about on this thread and found this video on the matter so I put it up for discussion to SORT it out. And thanks to what you have said I can see that the video was riddled with serious errors. I thought it was serious video presentation by a True Orthodox hierarch in one of the various jurisdictions and for that I put it up. But you have very well defended yourself and so for this you should be completely exonerated.

Again I am HORRIFIED that it was gotten so wrong by Bp Gregory and you have my sincere and trembling apologies for this. My hands are literally trembling as I type this as I feel how terribly slandered you have been and much worse that I have been the unwitting an stupid agent of that slander.

I can only cry, Forgive!

Symeon

[Suaidan]

I can only cry, Forgive!

God forgive.