Vegan Diet And the Teachings in Holy Scriptures

[joasia]

Hello Cafe Members,

I've been reading and hearing a lot about how meat and dairy products are detrimental to our health and the cause of many illnesses and diseases. I can't explain it any better than Dr. Kapler. I also recall where, in the Old Testament, people started decreasing in their life span after they were allowed to eat meat. And I also recall the passage where Christ showed Apostle Peter the variety of animals and fowls and told him to accept them as blessed by God. So, on the one hand, Dr. Kapler shows us the logic of what animal products do to our system, but on the other hand, God allowed mankind to eat them. Dr. Kapler also included fish. Is this a severe case of vegan propaganda? Because, I don't see how God would bless us to eat animal products if it would produce such illnesses as described in the video.

Or maybe it's the stuff that are added to the products, this passed century, that cause these illnesses. Maybe a thousand years ago, it was not a problem. I'm confused.

In Christ,
Joanna

[searn77]

Hello Cafe Members,

I've been reading and hearing a lot about how meat and dairy products are detrimental to our health and the cause of many illnesses and diseases. I can't explain it any better than Dr. Kapler. I also recall where, in the Old Testament, people started decreasing in their life span after they were allowed to eat meat. And I also recall the passage where Christ showed Apostle Peter the variety of animals and fowls and told him to accept them as blessed by God. So, on the one hand, Dr. Kapler shows us the logic of what animal products do to our system, but on the other hand, God allowed mankind to eat them. Dr. Kapler also included fish. Is this a severe case of vegan propaganda? Because, I don't see how God would bless us to eat animal products if it would produce such illnesses as described in the video.

Or maybe it's the stuff that are added to the products, this passed century, that cause these illnesses. Maybe a thousand years ago, it was not a problem. I'm confused.

In Christ,
Joanna

I took a nutrition class at a community college last year & we learned about how our body needs the nutrients that really can only be found in various meats. But we also learned about how in more recent years, the chemicals used in various foods & the unnatural ways companies raise the animals that are eventually slaughtered to become our food has made these foods (which still contain needed nutrients) also detrimental to our health. So according to what I've been taught, it depends on where you get your meats from.

[Barbara]

I think fish - salmon, tuna, halibut, these sorts - are needed, actually.
It is said that - true or not - fish are cold-blooded and hence not the same as eating animals.
Fish are considered to be willing to give up their lives to feed humans. Animals
are NOT willing. Think of the fear in them when being killed. Then that fear goes into the blood.
People who eat that stuff absorb all that "animalistic emotion" which cannot be of benefit.

Nutritionally there is really nothing - despite all the meat industry's efforts to sway opinion to this end -
in meat which one cannot easily find elsewhere among plants.

Meat is deadening, and actually deadly to one's system.

If anyone is interested, I can find some good books to explain in detail why this is so.

[joasia]

Hi Searn,

Did you have a chance to watch the video? I'd be interested in what you think of his explanations compared to the nutritional information. The nutrition is discussed, but is the effect of what it does in the system explained? His main points are that there's a lot of fat intake with meat and dairy which will build up over the years and clog up our system causing various illnesses. The other point is that our system is not made to digest flesh like with lions and other carnivores. Plus, our teeth and jaw structure indicate that we are plant-eaters. And too much protein actually causes us to lose calcium through urine that's why osteoporosis is so popular for women in later years.

Barbara,

fish are cold-blooded and hence not the same as eating animals. Fish are considered to be willing to give up their lives to feed humans.

Good point. I do like fish. They're not considered flesh. They can even be eaten raw unlike steak.

People who eat that stuff absorb all that "animalistic emotion" which cannot be of benefit.

The holy fathers have explained that eating meat causes the blood to boil which causes an effect on our emotions.

If anyone is interested, I can find some good books to explain in detail why this is so.

I think that would be very interesting and important to learn.

[jgress]

Actually, steak can be and is eaten raw by some people, e.g. in steak tartare, without ill health effects.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steak_tartare

Is there any evidence fish give up their lives more willingly? If you've ever fished yourself, you'd notice that the fish seem pretty eager to get off the hook and back into the water.

Can you quote a Father who says that eating meat causes the blood to boil? If you can, I can quote Fathers that say the sun revolves around the earth, but that doesn't make it true. We read the Fathers for their insight into the spiritual life, not for their knowledge of spiritually unimportant matters, such as scientific facts. It may be that some Fathers sought to find medical reasons, in addition to spiritual reasons, for fasting, but I would be very surprised if they gave that the same importance as the spiritual reasons for fasting. Many medical authorities today say that eating too much meat is unhealthy, but I think very few would say that one should never eat meat.

We fast from certain foods on some days because we enjoy eating those foods, and if we don't sometimes deny ourselves the enjoyment of these foods, then we will never free ourselves from attachment to pleasure. We do not fast from these foods because they are unhealthy or because they are intrinsically harmful to us in a spiritual way. If eating meat were physically or spiritually harmful, why is there a service for the blessing of meats on Pascha?

[Maria]

Great essay, Jonathan.

If anyone wishes to change his/her diet to Vegan, please be careful.

Much of what is sold as Vegan is dangerous as it can be loaded with GMO non-organic foods.

I read one label of Vegan Gluten-Free food at Whole Foods Market, which supposedly is now more than 50% controlled by Monsanto or by one of their subsidiaries. The food label claimed that it had soy oil, which is a high source of unhealthy omega 6 (see reference below). Unless that soy oil is labeled "Organic," one must suppose that it is probably GMO, as most soy oil is from GMO crops. The label also mentioned that there was corn in the product. Again, most corn is now GMO or GMO-contaminated in the open fields. I certainly did not buy that very expensive product. Note: buying foods labeled as "Vegan" usually brings a very high price tag as they cater to a young well-educated and rich population who are not concerned about prices.

It is far better to eat unprocessed foods that are organic and non-GMO. Processed foods have too much Omega 6 in the form of soy, safflower, sunflower, or corn oil. Actually, olive oil (salads), coconut oil (cooking), and butter are better. Butter, especially butter from pastured cows, is best eaten raw (not used in cooking or baking). Cheeses, yogurt, and meat from pastured-fed cows, goats, and sheep have much higher natural Vitamin A and D, especially in the spring and early summer.

Fish with backbones (vertebrates) are considered fish meat, and we cannot have the flesh of fish during Great Lent except on Saturdays, Sundays, and feast days. The best fish are non-farm raised wild salmon and trout. Sardines from Northern cool waters are also good. Fish without backbones (invertebrates), such as clams, oysters, lobster, and crabs, can be eaten during Great Lent, but these invertebrates are considered bottom dwellers and can pick up contaminates. It used to be that crab and lobster were poor men's food, but now they are pricey and often served with butter sauce, which makes them a non-Lenten dish.

http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA400149/b ... ega-6.html

By contrast, sources of omega-6 fatty acids are numerous in modern diets. They are found in seeds and nuts, and the oils extracted from them. Refined vegetable oils, such as soy oil, are used in most of the snack foods, cookies, crackers, and sweets in the American diet as well as in fast food. Soybean oil alone is now so ubiquitous in fast foods and processed foods that an astounding 20 percent of the calories in the American diet are estimated to come from this single source.

The body also constructs hormones from omega 6 fatty acids. In general, hormones derived from the two classes of essential fatty acids have opposite effects. Those from omega-6 fatty acids tend to increase inflammation (an important component of the immune response), blood clotting, and cell proliferation, while those from omega-3 fatty acids decrease those functions. Both families of hormones must be in balance to maintain optimum health.

[joasia]

Actually, steak can be and is eaten raw by some people, e.g. in steak tartare, without ill health effects.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steak_tartare

Is there any evidence fish give up their lives more willingly? If you've ever fished yourself, you'd notice that the fish seem pretty eager to get off the hook and back into the water.

Can you quote a Father who says that eating meat causes the blood to boil? If you can, I can quote Fathers that say the sun revolves around the earth, but that doesn't make it true. We read the Fathers for their insight into the spiritual life, not for their knowledge of spiritually unimportant matters, such as scientific facts. It may be that some Fathers sought to find medical reasons, in addition to spiritual reasons, for fasting, but I would be very surprised if they gave that the same importance as the spiritual reasons for fasting. Many medical authorities today say that eating too much meat is unhealthy, but I think very few would say that one should never eat meat.

I was expecting someone to bring up steak tartare. But, try biting into a raw T-bone. The point is that our teeth are not made for raw flesh eating and our system can't digest it very well. But, that's according to the Dr.'s video. I hope for more insight from our members.

Actually, I do recall reading that a saint describe it as blood boiling, but obviously it's not to be taken literally; he was referring to the spiritual effects. The holy fathers have taught that eating meat stimulates the passions. When we get upset, angry, frustrated, excited, our blood pressure rises, doesn't it? Don't we sometimes feel that we are so upset that our blood is boiling? Our emotions are connected to our physical conditions. The holy fathers do explain that we are in a better spiritual state when we don't eat meat. My point was about spiritual matters. The saints expressed that meat insights passions. They had a clear understanding of how it effects our souls.

We fast from certain foods on some days because we enjoy eating those foods, and if we don't sometimes deny ourselves the enjoyment of these foods, then we will never free ourselves from attachment to pleasure.

I disagree. A person can enjoy french fries and it doesn't break the fast. So, they are indulging in their enjoyment of this food within the limits of fasting. They gain nothing. An Orthodox Christian can be a vegan so that person is following the fasting rule everyday, but still enjoying the food they eat. Even when we do fast from meat and dairy, we enjoy other foods.

I think fasting is more about making an effort for God. We express our worship of our faith in Jesus Christ by honoring the rule of fasting that the Orthodox Church established, but we must do it in a way that we are humbled by it. Meaning that it isn't some mechanical action, but a sincere willingness of following the rule. BUT. What comes out of the mouth is more important than what goes in the stomach. Fasting words is more important than fasting food.

We do not fast from these foods because they are unhealthy or because they are intrinsically harmful to us in a spiritual way. If eating meat were physically or spiritually harmful, why is there a service for the blessing of meats on Pascha?

That's what I want to know. God blessed us to eat animal products. So why is there so much negative views of how these products destroy our bodies? What I've read and heard is that the meat really destroys the function of our systems.