Appeal of the First Heirarch of the ROAC to ROCOR(L)

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Seraphim Reeves
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Location: Canada

Post by Seraphim Reeves »

Hey "canonical"!

Religious Groups That Use 'Orthodox' in Their Names But Are Not Canonical Eastern Orthodox Churches

Yes not canonical..."canonical" I suppose, including the following...

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btw., for Al's benefit (and the hapless innocents who happen to come upon his profoundly misleading website), here is a link to an entire page of information pertaining to the anti-ecclessial phenomenon of neo-papal-patriarchalism which has infiltrated much of the popular thought of "contemporary Orthodoxy."

Neo-Papal Patriarchalism

Seraphim

rebecca
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Post by rebecca »

:o
Momma always said, "Canonical is as canonical does!"

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CGW
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Griping About Al

Post by CGW »

seraphim reeves wrote:

btw., for Al's benefit (and the hapless innocents who happen to come upon his profoundly misleading website), here is a link to an entire page of information pertaining to the anti-ecclessial phenomenon of neo-papal-patriarchalism which has infiltrated much of the popular thought of "contemporary Orthodoxy."

I may dislike Al intently, and he is entitled to his own views about my own church, but griping about the EP isn't going to mitigate problems with any other group. If you are peeved that your chosen affiliation is listed, I really do think that is a problem that you will have to live with. "Misleading" is inaccurate; "contrary to my views" is not.

canonical
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Re: Griping About Al

Post by canonical »

I may dislike Al intently, and he is entitled to his own views about my own church, but griping about the EP isn't going to mitigate problems with any other group. If you are peeved that your chosen affiliation is listed, I really do think that is a problem that you will have to live with. "Misleading" is inaccurate; "contrary to my views" is not.

I appreciate your kind remarks...but why would you dislike me intently? I don't know who you are, but have I ever done anything to you directly? My vagante web page is based not on my assessment of the horrible state of affairs Orthodoxy is in in the U.S. (and elsewhere), but on the list of canonical Orthodox jurisdictions on the OCA's web site. It seems to me that Orthodoxy has been influenced too much by the protestant trend to break away and form new churches over the darndest little things. There are upwards of 30,000 protestant denominations, sects, cults, etc., in protestantism worldwide. The Roman Catholics have their own "vagante" breakaways numbering in the thousands. We Orthodox have hundreds and hundreds of breakaways...all claiming to be right.

My question to those who belong to jurisdictions that may be listed on my vagante web page: How would you draw the line in the sand between the Orthodox wheat and the schismatic chaff?

Al

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Грешник
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Post by Грешник »

LOL!

Thanks Al! I got a serious laugh out of your site. I probably shouldn't have, but did. I dont know why I am moving in three months! I can take a bus 20 mins. away and see a bishop in the Orthodox Catholic Church! They are right here in town!

(Singing: "It's A Small World After All" with new lyrics by Juvenaly)

Sorry, just had to laugh.

Juvenaly

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Seraphim Reeves
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Post by Seraphim Reeves »

"canonical"

My question to those who belong to jurisdictions that may be listed on my vagante web page: How would you draw the line in the sand between the Orthodox wheat and the schismatic chaff?

first - confession of the Orthodox faith
second - canonical foundation

With regard to the second point, I'd recommend people keep in mind the following...

"… But as for those persons, on the other hand, who, on account of some heresy condemned by holy Councils, or Fathers, withdrawing themselves from communion with their president, who, that is to say, is preaching the heresy publicly, and teaching it bareheaded in church, such persons not only are not subject to any canonical penalty on account of their having walled themselves off from any and all communion with the one called a Bishop before any conciliar or synodical verdict has been rendered, but, on the contrary, they shall be deemed worthy to enjoy the honor which befits them among Orthodox Christians. For they have defied, not Bishops, but pseudo-bishops and pseudo-teachers; and they have not sundered the union of the Church with any schism, but, on the contrary, have been sedulous to rescue the Church from schisms and divisions." (Canon XV of the First-Second Synod)

In other words...

"Canonical"
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"...There is therefore no reason why a bishop in America should not proclaim openly the uniqueness of Orthodoxy. Neither does anything prevent a bishop in America from saying with great sincerity that the Church of Christ has no communion whatsoever with heretics or schismatics, whether they be Ecumenists, Zionists, Communists, Masons, phyletists, modernists, materialists, scholastics, or any other person, persons, institutions, or organizations opposed to sound doctrine." (+Bishop Gregory, from his acceptance speech upon accepting the Episcopate)

"Not Canonical"
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"We are deceived and we sin, if we think that the Orthodox faith came down from Heaven and that all [other] creeds are unworthy. Three hundred million people have chosen Islam in order to reach their god, and other hundreds of millions are Protestants, Catholics, and Buddhists. The goal of every religion is to improve mankind." ("Patriarch" Athenagoras of Constantinople, [see Orqodoxos Tnpos (Orthodoxos Typos), No. 94 [Dec. 1968]).

Seraphim

OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

canonical,

Protestantism is the refusal to recognize the Church of the Fathers and to acknowledge that the Holy Spirit illumines and guides the Church. It is the introduction of innovation and new “theology”, yet their loose “communion” remains intact. And despite their different and varying “theology”, they all consider themselves part of the same warm and fuzzy church.

This describes the new-calendarists, not the traditional Orthodox Christians.

When the Orthodox speak of the Orthodox Catholic Church, they do not mean only her bishops or the contemporary Orthodox Church throughout the world. The Catholic Church is not only the Church militant, but the Church triumphant as well. When any members of the contemporary “official” "Orthodox" Church throughout the world act in opposition to the triumphant Church of the Fathers, then those individuals who rise up against them in order to remain in communion of Faith with the Church of the Apostles and Fathers are not “Protestants”; on the contrary, they are the only members of the Church militant. They do not perpetrate schism by not following the contemporary hierarchs who tread their own individual Protestant paths; rather, they constitute the Church, because they alone are one body with the Apostolic, Catholic Church of Christ.

And odd how the Protestants of every denomination applauded the Ecumenical Patriarchate and all those of the WCC ever since they preened themselves with the encyclical of 1920 which proves them to have been the pioneer in the Ecumenical Movement and “orthodox Protestantism”

So to answer your question, how do I draw the line? The line has already been drawn by the fathers. Whoever 1) is in communion of those who hold the true faith, 2) who have apostolic succession stemming from predessors who also held the true faith, and 3) were not formed for reasons other than heresy or communion with heresy. Of course not everything is black and white at first, but time often reveals everything.

Last edited by OrthodoxyOrDeath on Thu 11 December 2003 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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