Answer Regarding Homosexuality

Patristic theology, and traditional teachings of Orthodoxy from the Church fathers of apostolic times to the present. All forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.


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Etienne
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Post by Etienne »

romiosini,

Difficult as it, minister F. Earle Fox has a point in his hard hitting article. One tactic of so-called 'homosexual' activists here is to question anyone who is, as they put it, so 'obsessed' by what homosexual get up to in bed.

As I have already written on this thread there is a tendency with both some religious communities and political activists to simply 'move the goal posts' so no one need be made uncomfortable because of their behaviour or 'chosen' life-style. Any who are recalcitrant may be attacked as bigots, hypocrites or violators of the 'civil rights' of this or that minority. The Bible is cited as authority for saying 'no' - no problem, reinterpret it, bring out a 'suitable' new translation (just done), or appeal to a SUPERIOR MORAL CODE.

For those who collude with this but would like to regard themselves as 'Christians' I always ask the following;

  • If Jesus of Nazareth was truly both man and God, why would his teachings be so limited by the world-view and culture of the first century A.D.?

  • What makes you, the supposedly superior interpreters of all knowledge, greater in wisdom than those who have followed a life of Christian struggle and asceticism?

  • What are your fruits and achievements?

All this brought about by two factors, an articulate and vociferous minority and a moral vacuum in much of 21st century western society.
African Anglicans and protestants who reject this are then subject to various slanders and dismissed, larglely by those only too willing to accuse others of something they call 'racism'.

For me reflecting on all this and the writings of Dr Alexander Kalomiros and Archimandrite Justin Popovich - among others - it is already too late in European society (which includes North America). European's arrogance knows no bounds, hears what everyone else says and believes none of it; knowing with conviction that he or she is intellectually, morally and creatively superior to all other cultures.

It may seem pessimistic but a time may not be far off when all who would cling to traditional Christianity will have no choice but to once again retreat into the catacombs and suffer martyrdom. The intolerance of the supposed advanced Tolerant will brook nothing less.

/\RT3|\/|0|\|
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Post by /\RT3|\/|0|\| »

Well Forgive Me bretheren if I sounded too hard, but all this dateing and Bishops-Preists saying it's o.k. (if they do) is a sin and I wont exccept it. Your unworthy brother Artemon :roll:

Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

Wow... why do I think I'll regret entering into this conversation? :) I'll be quick...

I think Chris brings up some good points about context.

I've seen slavic canons where kissing--and yes, just kissing with no additional "activity"--would get you a penance (Eve Levin, Sex and Society in the World of the Orthodox Slavs, 900-1700, [Ithaca, NY: Cornell University Press, 1989]). Playing footsies (as you flirt) could get you in trouble as well. For that matter, a lot of stuff would have gotten you in trouble back then, if a priest decided to be strict. Personally, I think trying to apply such principles strictly today would be much more harmful than helpful. But at the very least, this type of stuff should remind us that things like kissing are seen by the Church as intimate thing (not "exploration" which every kid age 12 and up should be doing), and these things should not be something to be done with just anyone and anywhere and at any time as a way of "testing" or "growing" or "exporing" or whatever.

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joasia
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Post by joasia »

Well. I got up to page 4 and couldn't continue. Too much verbiage. So I skipped over the next two.

But, reading the arguements of homosexuals and kissing....

All I could think of was...can someone please help me get this log out of my eye? The ultimate judgement of a person's soul will be with Christ.

Everybody has to deal with their demons.

Everybody knows what's right and wrong to do, if they read the words of Christ.

Or have some people forgotten that they are sinners too?

Here's a thought. What if a homosexual sacrifices his/her life to save another? Do they go to hell because of their sin or do they go to heaven because of their sacrifice?

Only God can answer that. Right?

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Post by /\RT3|\/|0|\| »

You sound like a protestant, sodomites were deystroyed in Sodom and gamora so there's your first clue on homosexuals

Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

Hey Artemon, lay off. :) I like Joasia, he's just trying to lead us away from sinning.

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joasia
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Post by joasia »

Artemon,
There's nothing protestant about me. Perhaps, I didn't make myself clear. Homosexuality is a sin, pointe finale. But, so is judgement, pride and apathy (amongst thousands of other sins).

It comes down to the person's state of soul when they die. You cannot say that someone will go to hell because of this or that...it's only God who can make that final decision.

I'm just saying, let's not talk about who will go to hell or who won't, because that is a deep form of pride. It means that we think we can make judgements about someone (which is only God's place) and to do that is blasphemy.

And just to let you in on a bit about my character...my friends consider me to be a big stickler for things and people to be strictly Orthodox. They always roll their eyeballs when I point something out that I see is not being done correctly. I think it's not the actual knowing that something isn't strictly Orthodox, but my pointing it out, that they feel I should tone down.

But, when it comes to people's souls...and their destination in the here after, I stay away from making judgement on that.

Justin,
Thanks for the support. But, just to let you know, I'm a woman, not a guy. Joasia means Joanna in Polish.

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