Catholic church origin

[user_421]

A must-read for all students of catholic history:

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plai ... resies.htm

[George]

Protestant claptrap.

[Justin Kissel]

I saw mostly inaccuracies. I don't accuse the author of intentional deception, but certainly much is simply wrong, and easily disprovable (if you want to spend the time). Here's an example:

Historically, the designation “Catholic” is not found in common usage until the fifth century. Church historian, Eusebius, writing in the 4th century, recorded events of Christendom’s early years without once mentioning a Catholic Church. Near the start of the 5th century, Augustine, bishop of Hippo in Africa, was called by his mother a “Catholic Christian.”

Not only had the term Catholic been used for hundreds of years at this point, but Orthodox had also been in use, which is clear from the Council's usage of that term in their Synodal Epistle to the Church in Egypt. As to Eusebius, I suppose that if you want to be nit-picky it depends on what translation you use. However, using the translation that the article itself references (the "anti-Nicene Fathers" collection in the public domain), it can be easily seen by using your browser's search function that Eusebius most certainly did call the Church Catholic. Here's an example:

"There have reached us epistles of Cornelius, bishop of Rome, to Fabius, of the church at Antioch, which show what was done at the synod at Rome, and what seemed best to all those in Italy and Africa and the regions thereabout. Also other epistles, written in the Latin language, of Cyprian and those with him in Africa, which show that they agreed as to the necessity of succoring those who had been tempted, and of cutting off from the Catholic Church the leader of the heresy and all that joined with him...

This avenger of the Gospel then did not know that there should be one bishop in a catholic church; yet he was not ignorant (for how could he be?) that in it there were forty-six presbyters, seven deacons, seven sub-deacons, forty-two acolyths, fifty-two exorcists, readers, and janitors, and over fifteen hundred widows and persons in distress, all of whom the grace and kindness of the Master nourish." (Emphasis Mine) - Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History, 6, 43

Eusebius goes on to call the Church Catholic ten more times after this (Book 7, Chapters 10, 29, and twice in 30; and Book 10, Chapters 5, twice in 6, and 7). This does not include the times when it could be argued that Eusebius simply uses the term "catholic" as a descriptive term, as in the phrase "one holy catholic and apostolic Church". Put straightly, Eusebius uses the term a dozen times, and any bookworm (or armchair historian--which is what the author of the article is) who has even superficially explored Catholic or Orthodox belief knows that other early Fathers called the Church "Catholic Church" as well, going almost all the way back to the beginning of the Church.

This case is a small one, I really don't even think it's that important. I chose it simply because it was one of the first points I came to, and because (having read Eusebius only 2 months ago--my book, a different translation, used the term Catholic Church as well) I knew how easily it could be refuted. The point is exactly this: with no intended offense to the author, I must ask, if the author can't get the small stuff right why should I trust him about the more important stuff?

[joasia]

Just to clarify...the word "catholic" (which is the English translation), comes from the ancient Greek word, kathaloki, which means universal. The Church as described in the Nicene Creed is, the Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church. The word Catholic refers to all creation...the Universal Church of God. He wants all His creation to be with the same faith in God that created this world. It DOES NOT pertain to the specific body of papists that identify themselves with this word. Or to the illusion that St. Peter is the head of the church. All this is falsehood.

The Western See of Rome started calling themselves Catholics under falsehood. Before the Great Schism, the Church was one. She was the universal, Christian faith of God. She was the Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church.

The faithful were considered Catholic(universal) and Orthodox(right dogma), which is why these words were used before the Great Schism. But, now the papists have labelled themselves with one and the Orthodox had to specify their confession by calling themselves Orthodox(straight doxology), because the Orthodox confession is the preservation of the true teachings of God...even if the hierarchy are not following it anymore. And that is where the confusion begins.

But, that is another thread to bare.

Good night,

Joanna

[Anastasios]

Actually, the Greek word katholiki meant full or whole, not universal, which was a meaning that it took on much later.

I wish people wouldn't result to the term Papist. When Roman Catholics read that they usually have quite a negative reaction, and if we are trying to witness Orthodoxy to Roman Catholics we should do everything in our power to not offend them unnecessarily! (If they are offended by the Truth of Orthodoxy then that is of course a different story).

Anastasios

[joasia]

Anastasios,

I think all three of the adjectives might mean the same thing. You know how rich the Greek language is? The English translations just cannot encompass the true meaning in Greek. But, in a weak attempt to settle the English translation into one context, perhaps we can say that katholoki means, for all of God's created souls. How about that?

As for the papist commentary...I perhaps, might have been using it with hostility in mind...but only towards the clergy that have allowed themselves to turn away from the Truth of God...referring mostly towards the cardinals and the pope, who obviously know what deception they are creating. Afterall, my whole family is catholic and they don't know any better, since they weren't taught how to be spiritual. It's a wonder that I ever passed through the cracks.

Orthodox6,

Calling them Unites is a specific term to their worship. They look Orthodox on the outside, but they commemorate the pope, which technically makes them Uniates. Perhaps it's the way they were called that which sounded offensive.

But, of course, we still have to watch how we say things. Some people just don't have the spiritual strength to handle the full Truth at once. Baby steps are needed.

Joanna

[George Australia]

But, in a weak attempt to settle the English translation into one context, perhaps we can say that katholoki means, for all of God's created souls. How about that?

I don't mean to sound pedantic, but: not really.
"Katholikos" comes from the two root words ""kata" ("according to") and "olikos" ("The entirety/the whole"). The meaning conveyed by this is not simply the notion of universality. It also means that that each local Church under an Orthodox Bishop contains the same fullness of Grace as the Church throughout the world. In other words, your local parish Church is the same as the entire Church- it functions "according to the whole".