The Theotokos and Marian apparitions

[rat]

I've been studying ' The Orthodox Veneration of Mary, The Birth giver of God' by St. John Maximovitch. It is a very good treatment of the subject, and I quite agree with the conclusions he makes, especially the sixth chapter where he refutes the papist idea of the immaculate conception as an invention of man.

Here's the problem- in some of the so-called 'Marian apparitions', she has made reference to her "immaculate conception"
http://www.creationists.org/MessagesFro ... ption.html

So the question arises - who or what is this apparition? I don't believe that it is the Theotokos, so could it be some sort of 'devil disguised as an angel of light' , or merely wishful thinking?

Has the the Theotokos appeared in contemporary times in an Orthodox setting?

[Joshua F]

Saint Seraphim of Sarov was granted to see the Theotokos. Also, there is an account of two very young girls fleeing the Ukrainian starvation on their own who were protected by angels and the Theotokos. Those are the appearances I know about in a semi-modern context. The Catholics have a long hystery of mysticism, but, as you suggest, it seems to be of quite a different quality from the Orthodox tradition, and much more similar to Orthodox accounts of demonic manifestations and spiritual delusion, or prelest. Stigmata come to mind - the absolute summit of spiritual pride as opposed to Orthodox humility.

[joasia]

Joshua,

Also, there is an account of two very young girls fleeing the Ukrainian starvation on their own who were protected by angels and the Theotokos.

Would their names be Alexandra and Galina? What an amazing experience they had. That is a true example of God's guidance in our lives.

Joanna

[George Australia]

So the question arises - who or what is this apparition? I don't believe that it is the Theotokos, so could it be some sort of 'devil disguised as an angel of light' , or merely wishful thinking? ?

Miriam Lambouras has written a good article on this subject:
The Marian Apparitions: Divine Intervention or Delusion?

[joasia]

This article is very long-winded and still shows that the appearance of the Theotokos is not genuine in all these non-Orthodox circumstances...including the Monophosites.

I believe more in the visitations with St. Seraphim of Sarov.

So many people are ready to believe in the falsehood presented. It's very, very sad.

There is a Lebonese family that has a picture of the Theotokos that is streaming myrr, in my city. But, they are papists...so is it really from God? I think not.

There is one path to follow and His appearance or that of the Theotokos is limited to those who are with the Truth. And the Truth is in Orthodoxy.

Joanna

[George Australia]

This article is very long-winded

"Long-winded"? We are dealing with a very complex phenomenon here! Not only the issue of mass prelest, but also the political use of these "apparitions"- if you doubt this- just look at the millions of people who believe the phenomena of Medjugorje to be "Divine" in origin- I wonder how much this contributed to the breakdown of Yugoslavian society and the most recent religious violence between Serbs and Croats? I was fortunate enough to visit Yugoslavia in 1991 when it was once one of the most cosmopolitan places in the world, where Orthodox, Catholics and Muslims lived and worked together in harmony. Yet in a few short years, the gates of Hell opened up there- coincidence? Or try and convince a Roman Catholic that the "Immaculate Conception" is a false doctrine and a stupid solution to a non-existent problem when they believe it has received the "Divine" stamp of approval at Lourdes and in the apparitions to Catherine Laboure.
The author is thorough- I wouldn't say she is "long-winded".

[Mor Ephrem]

Using "the miraculous" to prove the truth of a particular confession is utterly useless and can possibly lead to delusion. Stick to the faith, ignore "the miraculous", except perhaps to be edified once you're "sold".