HYPNOSIS

[ChristosVoskrese]

Hypnosis to stop smoking doesn't always work. Apparently my father tried it years ago, but it didn't work. From what my mother has told me, he seemed to think that it was a magic formula that would get rid of his addiction without him having to do anything. He wasn't prepared to put in the hard work, so it didn't work for him.

[Pravoslavnik]

C.V.,

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   Six month smoking abstinence rates achieved with hypnotherapy have ranged from 20-68% in pulished studies.*  Outcome is based partly on the experience of the clinician and the hypnotizability of the "subject."

*see Holroyd, I. "Hypnosis Treatment for Smoking." Int J Clin Exp Hyp. 23:341-357. 1980.

[joasia]

And what is the spiritual reward of overcoming the passions when it is done by hypnosis? It is a form of prelest to the spiritual warefare. And it is a doorway for the evil ones to occupy a person's soul.

Hypnosis is a technique of the pagans when they went to the Oricle for divination. It is an evil technique because it's core method is to render a person incapable of refusing the suggestions given him or her; it strips a person of their free will during the procedure. It is a direct affront to God Who gave us free will and would not even impose His Will on us in order to choose Him over the evil one. And it is originated with occultists. But, now it has become a form of social entertainment.

It's a great technique for mind control.

Oh fools, how you dance to the tune with empty minds when the enemy hides amidst your party, oblivious to their presence, waiting for you to slumber and then the slaughter begins.

There has been no saint who has used hypnosis for whatever reason.

Pravo, you ascertain that St. John of Kronstadt would use hypnosis. Where did he say that?

I would not contradict the Optina Elders in matters of spiritual discernment...

Then why do you???

First evolution and now hypnosis. Why am I not surprised? Perhaps next it will be spirit guides and ghosts. Or maybe seances. Wow, Pravo, you really are batting foul balls.
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[Pravoslavnik]

Joasia,

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    Your profound ignorance--of psychology as well as paleobiology, apparently-- is exceeded only by your fear of things that you do not understand, or care to learn anything about, including the functions of the unconscious mind.  Hypnosis is incorporated into much of the praxis of Orthodoxy, and there is nothing magical, necessarily pagan, or demonic about it.  It is a natural phenomenon of our mental life as human beings.  It is, of corse, easy to "demonize" and mislabel things that we don't understand--something that Dostoevsky, himself, lamented about some of the Orthodox pietists in 19th century Russia.  

    Please clarify exactly how I have contradicted the last Elders of Optina--Nectarius and Barsanuphius--whose works I am quite familiar with.  Your slanderous accusation against me is a serious matter, and should not be made lightly by an Orthodox Christian.  Define Nectarius's use of the word "hypnosis" in relation to modern hypnotherapy, as I requested of Cyprian.  Was he referring to travelling Mesmerist shows, psychoanalysts, theosophists?  As for hypnotic suggestion, it is generally only effective if a subject accepts it.  That is why I advised Angela to be clear about what she would hope to achieve, therapeutically, by hypnotherapy.  Is she trying to quit smoking?  Trying to recover dissociated memories of tauma? Trying to overcome physical pain?  These mental processes have very little, if anything, to do with spiritual warfare or the passions.

P.S. Are you one of those people who believes that diabetics should not take insulin, or that people with severe post-surgical pain should not use opiates, lest they undermine their spiritual warfare against the passions? Where do you draw the line between helpful, appropriate medical treatment and medical care that is sinful and "demonic"?

[joasia]

And again... you fail to answer direct questions. Typical.

[Pravoslavnik]

Joasia,

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  What questions did I fail to answer?  You said the same thing, repeatedly, during our lengthy, very detailed discussions of paleobiology and the theory of relativity on the evolution thread.  I clearly stated that I would not presume to contradict the wisdom of the Optina Elders, but that we also needed to clarify their definitions and the historical context in which they were speaking about "hypnosis," rather than making overly general misinterpretations of their teachings, or the teachings of other saints and the scriptures.  I am still waiting for Cyprian to give me some scriptural references on the subject of hypnosis, per se.  I would also like him to support his broad, general claims that hypnotherapy, as we now use it in medicine, has been condemned by St. John of Kronstadt, St. Ignatius Brianchaninov, and others.  Let us not inaccurately demonize techniques of medicine and psychology which may be truly helpful to mankind, and acceptable in the sight of God.  The Holy Apostle and Evangelist Luke was, himself, a physician.

[ANGELA]

Firstly, I will not ever use hypnosis. Secondly, it in another Christian website that I was trying to clarify why it is not used in our Orthodox Faith. I was debating against it.

Yes. St Luke was a physician, but not a hypnotist.

Thankyou Joanna for clarifying this for me.

In Christ
Angela+++