Cathedral in Nice, France handed over to muscly Russia/MP

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Catherine5
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Cathedral in Nice, France handed over to muscly Russia/MP

Post by Catherine5 »

Far more accurate analysis of Russian state and Church strategies from what would expect from Time Magazine, today Sunday January 24, 2010:
"Why Russia Wants Its Orthodox Churches Back"

"Though not even two decades have passed since the Soviet state collapsed in 1991, the Orthodox Russians who came to France to flee communism say they're starting to view Moscow with mistrust again. The reason: the recent move by Russia to take control of a dazzling Orthodox cathedral built in Nice during the reign of Czar Nicholas II, which some opponents say is part a wider, nationalistic power play by Moscow to regain symbols of Russia's historical, cultural and religious grandeur abroad.

"The tussle centers on the Cathedral of Saint Nicholas — a breathtaking church topped with spires and domes that was built in 1912 on land that Nicolas' grandfather, Alexander II, had purchased a half century earlier. Initially intended as a place of worship for the Russian aristocrats and industrialists who flocked to the Côte d'Azur before the 1917 Russian Revolution, the cathedral became a spiritual and cultural focal point for the mass of exiles who fled to Nice during the Soviet era. Since the fall of communism nearly 19 years ago, the so-called "white Russian" community and its offspring has been joined by Russian jet-setters who've grown extremely wealthy under the country's current leadership and bought pricey mansions in Nice to use as their second homes.

"To the Russian diaspora, as well as the 85,000 paying tourists who visit the church every year, the Cathedral of Saint Nicholas has represented a slice of Mother Russia on the shores of the Mediterranean. And that's exactly the logic the Russian government used to win a court case in France on Jan. 20 that recognized Moscow's ownership of the church. The Nice Russian Orthodox Cultural Association (ACOR), which managed the church under a 99-year lease it signed with the czarist regime in 1909, had maintained that it effectively inherited the cathedral when Russia's royal family was executed during the revolution. But the court upheld the Russian government's position that since the czarists had bought the land and built the church using state money, the cathedral remains the property of the Russian government, meaning that Moscow could legally reclaim it now that ACOR's lease has expired. Decades of Soviet uninterest in the property, the court decided, did not undermine Russia's entitlement to it today.

"ACOR, which says it will appeal the ruling, has derided the case as yet another attempt by Russian leaders to manipulate the Orthodox Church for political and nationalistic purposes. Under the Soviet regime, communist leaders enlisted Russian Orthodox officials to fan patriotism and encourage support for the state among the population, in return for which the authorities held back from stamping out the religion for good. Now, detractors say that Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and his government allies are similarly seeking to gain public support by reclaiming relics of Russia's former greatness abroad to stoke patriotism among voters.

"It's a tradition that goes back to Ivan the Terrible and Peter the Great, in which political leaders used symbols of Russian grandeur — including an entirely submissive church — to create greater support for the regime," says Jean Gueit, the rector of the Nice cathedral. "Russian society has been so disoriented and adrift following the changes of the past 20 years that Putin is playing the old nationalist game to snap people out of it by responding to simplistic messages and emotions. Part of that is rebuilding the equally shattered Russian Orthodox Church and help it snatch up all these parishes abroad."

"Indeed, the Cathedral of Saint Nicholas is not the only prize catching Moscow's eyes. Last year, Italy agreed to cede ownership of a similarly spectacular cathedral in Bari to the Russian Orthodox Church, and the year before that, Paris did the same with a cathedral there. And last October, Israel agreed to turn over a building in Jerusalem known as "Sergei's Courtyard," which was constructed in 1890 to accommodate Russian pilgrims to the Holy Land. Moscow is also currently in a legal battle over control of London's St. Andrews Cathedral, home to a large Orthodox congregation.

But Moscow's drive isn't just about real estate and nationalism. Critics say the government is also trying to bring back into the fold the congregations that broke with the Russian Orthodox Church during the Soviet era to join a rival Orthodox branch, the Patriarchate of Constantinople — as the faithful in Nice did in 1931. Many of these overseas congregations have started to restore their ties to the Russian Orthodox Church in recent years, although Gueit says this is only in response to the government putting the squeeze on their churches.

"The Nice congregation isn't planning to rejoin the Russian church any time soon. In fact, Gueit says the congregation wants to stake out an independent, pan-Orthodox position by breaking with the Constantinople Patriarchate, too. He hopes to then attract other congregations to his nonaligned movement — whether he has a cathedral to use as his base, or not."

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MPROCORDsdnt
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Re: Cathedral in Nice, France handed over to muscly Russia/MP

Post by MPROCORDsdnt »

It was in the hands of the Parisian Renovationists. This was the right decision.

Jason Bently

http://tserkovnyjevekhi.blogspot.com/

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Re: Cathedral in Nice, France handed over to muscly Russia/MP

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MPROCORDsdnt wrote:

It was in the hands of the Parisian Renovationists. This was the right decision.

Jason Bently

http://tserkovnyjevekhi.blogspot.com/

I'm not sure it was the 'right' decision, since both the MP and the Evlogians are in heresy. Rather, the cathedral simply transferred from one false jurisdiction to another.

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Re: Cathedral in Nice, France handed over to muscly Russia/MP

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When was there a council that established the heresy of the Russian Orthodox Church or the Evlogians? When were they called to answer for their errors? Who called them and adjudicated the matter? Was there even a call for repentance prior to them supposedly being called "heretics"?

The Nice cathedral was built by the Russian state for Russians in diaspora to be staffed by the RUSSIAN CHURCH, not a body in schism from it. If the Evlogians or anyone else in France, want a cathedral in Nice, let them build it for themselves and have a Bishop who placates their schismatic sympathies secure it for them as theirs.

St. Tikhon did, however, anathemize Renovationism as heresy, what is practiced in the PJ, and that was recognized throughout the entire Russian church. The point is calling them to account for it and hoping they will change, rather than sparking more schisms with a vagante synod espousing some Vatican I heretically PAPAL ecclesiology.

Jason Bently

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Re: Cathedral in Nice, France handed over to muscly Russia/MP

Post by jgress »

MPROCORDsdnt wrote:

When was there a council that established the heresy of the Russian Orthodox Church or the Evlogians? When were they called to answer for their errors? Who called them and adjudicated the matter? Was there even a call for repentance prior to them supposedly being called "heretics"?

The Nice cathedral was built by the Russian state for Russians in diaspora to be staffed by the RUSSIAN CHURCH, not a body in schism from it. If the Evlogians or anyone else in France, want a cathedral in Nice, let them build it for themselves and have a Bishop who placates their schismatic sympathies secure it for them as theirs.

St. Tikhon did, however, anathemize Renovationism as heresy, what is practiced in the PJ, and that was recognized throughout the entire Russian church. The point is calling them to account for it and hoping they will change, rather than sparking more schisms with a vagante synod espousing some Vatican I heretically PAPAL ecclesiology.

Jason Bently

I understand your point, I think. However, you will find that all True Orthodox agree the World Orthodox are in heresy. The most significant difference is that some, the Cyprianites, believe that the World Orthodox are 'as yet uncondemned heretics', and still have Grace; while others, the vast majority, believe they are heretics, pure and simple, and do not have Grace. I am of the latter, but I don't necessarily consider the former heretics. I believe that both the MP and the Evlogians fall under the 1983 anathema of ROCA against ecumenism, and the Evlogians also fall under the 1583 anathema against the Papal calendar. Since both the EP and the MP have prayed and even communed with the Pope, they fall under the 1054 anathemas against the Papal church. I am just warning you against making claims that are in general incompatible with True Orthodoxy, i.e. claiming that the World Orthodox churches are truly Orthodox. This is a True Orthodox forum, please remember.

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Re: Cathedral in Nice, France handed over to muscly Russia/MP

Post by MPROCORDsdnt »

Well, you may consider as you like, but in order to have a successful and effective forum, it is best you allow all points of view. Again, I will not participate in "TOC" discussions. I have made my points clear on how ORTHODOXY understandings heresy to be adjudicated--a pope or Vagante wanna pope doesn't hurl lightning bolts from Mt. Olympus to make that true.

I am quite aware of GOC/Dissident history and their ecclesiologies, but I am specifically addressing Orthodox theology and conciliarity.

St. Tikhon anathemizing Renovationism as heresy is a hallmark of "TOC" rejection of "modernism," btw and its basis in interpretation of canons of the Seventh Ecumenical Council.

Jason Bently

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Re: Cathedral in Nice, France handed over to muscly Russia/MP

Post by jgress »

MPROCORDsdnt wrote:

Well, you may consider as you like, but in order to have a successful and effective forum, it is best you allow all points of view. Again, I will not participate in "TOC" discussions. I have made my points clear on how ORTHODOXY understandings heresy to be adjudicated--a pope or Vagante wanna pope doesn't hurl lightning bolts from Mt. Olympus to make that true.

I am quite aware of GOC/Dissident history and their ecclesiologies, but I am specifically addressing Orthodox theology and conciliarity.

St. Tikhon anathemizing Renovationism as heresy is a hallmark of "TOC" rejection of "modernism," btw and its basis in interpretation of canons of the Seventh Ecumenical Council.

Jason Bently

Well, not all views need be permitted. The Orthodox emperors did not tolerate the public preaching of heresy and restrained heretics with the civil sword. We welcome genuine seekers after Truth, but if you want to come here and assert claims that are in complete contradiction to what most of us believe, there is no reason for us to tolerate this, as it is scandalous and the occasion for passionate arguments.

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