Difficult Conversion

Moronikos · Post by **Moronikos** » Sat 3 January 2004 1:44 pm

OrthodoxLearner,

As I said before, I would seek advice from wise counsel--and that isn't boys on the internet pretending to be Orthodox. Seek out a solid priest for advice.

the humble "swine", Joseph

Seraphim Reeves · Post by **Seraphim Reeves** » Sat 3 January 2004 2:05 pm

Orthodox Learner,

As I said before, I would seek advice from wise counsel--and that isn't boys on the internet pretending to be Orthodox. Seek out a solid priest for advice.

Precisely, an Orthodox Priest. Fr.George is on this forum, he'd be a good start (both a Priest and a monastic.) Fr.Dionysi is also on and off a participant on this forum. If you'd like, you could even contact an Orthodox Bishop (Gregory) at the following e-mail...

bishopgregory@russianorthodoxautonomouschurchinamerica.com

Seraphim

Joe Zollars · Post by **Joe Zollars** » Sat 3 January 2004 2:51 pm

Moronikos:

One my real name is Johanan in case you were wondering and "Joe" is just an old nickname that I used because even I had trouble at a young age pronouncing my name.

two, of the three people you mentioned only one, Seraphim, was a member at any time of hte SSPX. I attended one of their chapels occasionally, but never on a regular basis. I was for a time with the indults and then with the independent chapels that were pro-sspx and did believe JPII to be a valid pope of rome. However for the vast majority of the year to year and a halph before I determined romanism to be a sham, I was either a closeted sedevacantist, a supporter of one of hte 13 otyher claimants to the papist throne besides JPII or an out right sedevacantist.

Yes I was a traditionalist Roman, yes I did upon great occasion assist at an SSPX chapel, and yes I did financially support an SSPX seminarian, but at no time was I an actual member of the SSPX.

Perhaps a little less assumeing is in order.

Nicholas Zollars

Moronikos · Post by **Moronikos** » Sat 3 January 2004 3:32 pm

Joseph Michael Martinka,

Please forgive me for calling you an ex-SSPX-er. I should not have lumped you in with Mr. Zollars and Mr. Reeves. I guess I made the unwarranted jump from "Traditional Roman Catholic" to SSPX. It just seems as if you have jumped ship from one extreme position to another. In the first case, it would have been traditional RCism with its narrow definition of the church, and now it is the ROAC. It seems to me to be two sides of the same coin.

Are you the same Joseph Martinka that wrote a review of Michael Rose's "Goodby Good Men"? That Joseph Martinka wanted to become a Roman Catholic Priest and was rejected on mental grounds. That same Joseph Martinka then tried to join a monastic order, but was also rejected for about the same reasons, as far as I can tell.

In your blog, you write that Mr. Zollars suggested you contact "Vladyka" Gregory which you did on October 11, 2003. Further on in the blog, you write on October 17, 2003 that you had your first contact with "Vladyka" Gregory which was a phone call. Approximately one month later, you write in your blog that you are officially a catechumen in the Orthodox church--but at first you were unsure. I was wondering why you were unsure? Was the catechumen rite done over the phone or something?

Now, less than three months after writing your first letter to "Vladyka" Gregory, you are going to be baptized into ROAC? Does any of this strike you as a little fast and out of the ordinary?

For Orthodox Learner, doesn' this seem rather out of the ordinary? These "bishops" and "clergy" seem to recruit impatient, impulsive, young men. I may be "hypcritical" and a "swine", but what do your eyes, ears, and heart tell you? The hairs on the back of your neck ought to be warning you about taking advice from such a vagante sect.

The "swine", Joseph

Joe Zollars · Post by **Joe Zollars** » Sat 3 January 2004 3:43 pm

your assumptions continue. You assume to know the whole situation from a few readings of Juvenaly (that is his LEGAL name) 's blog. You continue to assume I was an SSPXer even though you have absolutely no way of knowing this and it is completely without base.

OL, perhaps you should look at how Moronikos (and others in world "orthodoxy") stoops to character assasinations of Clergy, baseless assumptions, and pontificating upon situations in which he knows nothing but a few details to see how world "orthodoxy" is nothing but a sham.

Nicholas Zollars

Justin Kissel · Post by **Justin Kissel** » Sat 3 January 2004 4:06 pm

Juvenaly,

I do not consider your addressing Moronikos in the way that you did proper. You need not attack anyone on this forum; this is not a war zone. Besides the good content you included in your post, you could have also pointed out to Moronikos things such as:

In many ways, catechumens are considered Orthodox. If someone who is a catechumen dies, for instance, they get an Orthodox burial. If they are martyred as a catechumen, they are considered an Orthodox martyr. Even if they are an unbaptized person, Emperors in the Roman Empire were still considered a "Christian Emperor" if they affirmed the Orthodox faith. And so forth.
One need not be a baptized Orthodox Christian to understand Orthodoxy. More than one saint (and many bishops) were raised straight from the catechumenate (ie. before they were baptized, or had even been taught about the sacraments--which didn't happen in the early Church until the moment of baptism) to being a priest or bishop. Saints Nektarios of Constantinople and Ambrose of Milan are just two examples.

These, together with your on-target discussion of living an Orthodox life even before baptism would have been a very effective rebuttal. But instead you name-called and did other unnecessarily low things. I think one of the hardest lessons for those of us (me included) who are new to Orthodoxy to learn is just to keep our mouths shut sometimes... or at least to keep it closed enough so that our foot doesn't get suck in it!

I say this having myself said some utterly foolish and presumptuous things over the past couple of years (and even over the past couple of weeks). Maybe one of these days I'll learn to follow my own advice. Regardless of when I learn that lesson, though, I don't think my own inability to follow the advice I'm giving totally invalidates it. I'm not the hypocrite saying "Do as I say, not as I do". It's more like, "I've gone on this path and now I wish I could get off it, I'd advise avoiding this path if you can".

Грешник · Post by **Грешник** » Sat 3 January 2004 5:13 pm

Again I am forced to defend myself againt those who seem to want to assassinate those they do not agree with.

Are you the same Joseph Martinka that wrote a review of Michael Rose's "Goodby Good Men"? That Joseph Martinka wanted to become a Roman Catholic Priest and was rejected on mental grounds. That same Joseph Martinka then tried to join a monastic order, but was also rejected for about the same reasons, as far as I can tell.

Yes I wrote the review for the book by Michael Rose.
No I suggest if you are going ot assassinate someone you might want to make sure your gun is not loaded with jelly. The Diocese I applied for and was rejected by rejected me because according to the bishop of the Diocese I was too "narrow minded" in my beliefs that gays should be allowed to practice their lifestyle and still be considered priests let alone Romanists.
Again I suggest you recheck your ammunition. I JOINED A RELIGIOUS MISSIONARY ORDER in the Roman Church and was with them for 2 years. If you want the number of the Superior General I can offer it to you to get your facts straight. I would however like a little prove based off of your assumotions that I was rejected on the basis of mental grounds.

And so the tower continues to be destroyed...

Approximately one month later, you write in your blog that you are officially a catechumen in the Orthodox church--but at first you were unsure. I was wondering why you were unsure? Was the catechumen rite done over the phone or something?

No sir, the Catechumen rite was done in St. Seraphom of Saeov Church in Running Springs California. I can supply you with an email and a phone number of the priest to confer this with.

Now, less than three months after writing your first letter to "Vladyka" Gregory, you are going to be baptized into ROAC? Does any of this strike you as a little fast and out of the ordinary?

Was it not a few days ago we were talking about "Internet Orthodoxy"? It seems that for all the slackjawing that people do they really have no clue what goes on in this real world that they continue to banter about. It may to you seem impetuous that my baptism is "faster than usual", but can you offer me any Canons or Writings that claim that there is a "waiting period" before one should be accepted into Orthodoxy?

I gie you the following example:

St Phillip, (An Apostle in case you forgot) was walking long the road and is stopped by a Eunich. The Eunich asks him what is required ofr one ot be baptized. St. Phillip responds. You believe, that is enough and the Eunich was baptised that same day.

There was no Catechumen rite for him. There is no "time table" for Baptism. Acceptance of the rules and laws and practices but above all FAITH IN the LORD JESUS CHRIST IN AND OF HIS CHURCH is all that prevents a willing soul from the decision of being baptized or not.

Moronikos, since you seem to know me from the internet so well, based on your expert opinion, how long do you think I should wait before being baptized?

The Saint Euphrosynos Cafe

Difficult Conversion

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