Church gift shop

Justin Kissel · Post by **Justin Kissel** » Wed 7 July 2004 3:58 pm

TomS

But the Theotokos CAN'T save you. She can PRAY for you, but SHE can't save you.

That largely depends on what you mean by the word "saved" The Scripture itself says that people are saved through human beings (James 5:19-20; 1 Tim. 4:16). Obviously it all goes back to God, as every good thing (and certainly salvation) has its source in God. But, properly understood (or clarified), even the Theotokos can be prayed to to "save us".

Waldemar · Post by **Waldemar** » Fri 9 July 2004 11:11 pm

I either wear a ring with "Most Holy Bogoroditsa, Save Us" or "Lord Jesus Christ , Have Mercy." I purchased each one on separate pilgrimages to the Russian Orthodox Cathedral of St. John the Baptist in Washington, DC (established by St. John Maximovitch) so they are dear to me as they remind me to pray and make me think of Vladika John.

Waldemar · Post by **Waldemar** » Fri 9 July 2004 11:36 pm

TomS, submitted for your consideration:

Code: Select all

  The Protestant North, through the professors of our two Greek universities, cooled our warm affection toward our sweetest Mother Panagia.  Thus for a time she was distanced from our prayers as direct intercessor and mediator for us to her Son.  Even some clergy, when discussing prayer, ignore the Theotokos and repeatedly refer to her as the 'first after the One,'  meaning that she is the intercessor closest to God -- whereas the hymnography of the Church through and through calls her by her blessed name.   It is unacceptable that  our Greek Orthodox Church should be influenced by such a rationlistic, Germanic, Protestant spirit.

 I was asked which is the right way:  to say 'Most Holy Theotokos save us,' or to say 'Most Holy Theotokos intercede for us.'  This question was influenced by some modernized, Protestant-minded Orthodox people whom I have considered most disrespectful enemies of Panagia.  I replied to them: 'The accepted way, always, is to say "Save us".'

Hieromonk Athanasios the Iviritan, quoted in An Athonite Gerontikon

romiosini · Post by **romiosini** » Fri 9 July 2004 11:45 pm

Sorry to say Waldemar... but I would find it very unorthodox to have rings with written prayers on them. If you we're me, you'd ask yourself which Saint that wasn't Royalty wore rings? (Who aren't royalty, because there are the exceptions of Saint Catherine and her jewelery she wore, but accepted GREATMartyrdom for her Bridegroom!) It's just unsual to have rings as reminders of avoiding sin by prayful thought. A good tool that was truly passed down by the Fathers is the prayer rope (from Saint Anthony of Egypt and Saint Pachomius the Great). I think the prayer rope (Greek style) 33-not that just fits your hand, is a great help for a reminder. Now that is just me, of course, you can have your way and style to keep yourself in remind of prayer and right thinking.

Romiosini

Waldemar · Post by **Waldemar** » Sat 10 July 2004 12:07 am

If you we're me, you'd ask yourself which Saint that wasn't Royalty wore rings?

Romiosini,

I didn't mention that my wedding ring doesn't fit me anymore. I wear one of these prayer rings in its stead. I'm not royalty and I'm no Saint, but I am married so I have worn a ring for 15 years.

I do have a wrist prayer rope . It is indeed a good reminder and slides off of my bony wrist easily for use. However, I only wear it with long sleeves since I don't like people asking me what it is all of the time.

For me, the prayer rings are more subtle and discreet.

Anyway, I got them from Vladika John's Church so I didn't give any thought as to their potential inappropriateness. Anyway, as they say:

"When in Third Rome...."

romiosini · Post by **romiosini** » Sat 10 July 2004 12:58 am

yeah, you're right about that. It could be a good replacement for the wedding ring that can't fit you in of course. If it makes you feel better, then we are all good. Hopefully, people wont overdo it and make it a fashion style wearing prayered rings. (you never know what could happen! If greeks have those musical catholics pianos in their churches, then anything is possible!) But of course, if it really was a wrong thing, would Saint John halt it's production of rings? There are even rings from Sinai which they put on the incorrupt hand of Saint Catherine as a blessing and then give it out to ppl to wear as a reminder that Saint Catherine is there when you need her!

Romiosini

Waldemar · Post by **Waldemar** » Sat 10 July 2004 8:19 am

Romiosini,

Thanks for reminding me about St. Catherine. My family and I were at the Byzantium: Faith and Power exhibit at the Met on June 19 (Hey, did we bump into any of you guys that weekend?) and I picked up a copy of the Life of St. Catherine from the gift shop since I know nothing about her.

Saint Catherine is there when you need her!

Then I need to get to know her! Time to pick the book off that shelf.