Can there be a joint Melkite-Orthodox parish?

[Joseph]

A really helpful resource is THE TOUCHSTONE available as a download at
the Holy Orthodox Church in North America webite: HOCNA.org. Everyong struggling with these issues should read this.

There are no easy answers but some things should be kept in mind.
The schismatics are those who have changed the faith, not those who preserve it. St. Maximus was not a schismatic when he refused to have communion with Constantinople and others. These struggles are not just "political". Turning inward and ignoring the issues is not an Orthodox answer. We are all responsible for the faith. The whole "Graceless" issue can get you off course and cause dispair. There are no cut and dried answers. THE TOUCHSTONE addresses this in a very helpful manner. The important thing is to not feel you have to answer every issue but to be under a bishop who holds and teaches the faith faithfully.

[Ephraem]

Thank you Joseph for suggesting The Touchstone by Alexander Kalomiros, who I recognize as the author of The River of Fire. While I have not read but a portion of it, it has presented many important details that I have not come across in previous reading.

Do Mets. Herman (OCA) and Philip (Antioch) commemorate Pat. Bartholomew, and does Bartholomew really commemorate John Paul II ?!

[romiosini]

Thank you Joseph for suggesting The Touchstone by Alexander Kalomiros, who I recognize as the author of The River of Fire. While I have not read but a portion of it, it has presented many important details that I have not come across in previous reading.

Do Mets. Herman (OCA) and Philip (Antioch) commemorate Pat. Bartholomew, and does Bartholomew really commemorate John Paul II ?!

May God make me worthy to answer these questions...
According to the alleged OCA history, the OCA is autocephalous meaning, they are independant as the Churches of Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem, Cyprus, Georgia, Bulgaria, Russia, Serbia, Romania, Greece, Czechoslovakia, and Poland. Meaning Metropolitan Herman commemorates no over him. But commemorates for living the brother Hierarchs that are presidents (Bishops) of their Church.
But Metropolitan Philip, is the Archhierarch of the Autonomous Antiochian Church of America, meaning he still commemorates Patriarch Ignatius whom is under his jurisdiction, as the Church of Ukrane does, Metropolitan Vladimir commemorates Patriarch Alexis of Russia. But can choose independantly his own hierarchy in America. Ukrane has also the priveledge to glorify independantly without an Autocephalous church, acting as an autocephalous.

I hope you benefited somehow from my information, if I am incorrect, anyone, please don't hesitate to correct me.

[joasia]

Sabbas,

The only means of guidance is prayer to God. He will lead you down the right path, IF you truely care to be with Him. We have no holy fathers to consult. And, with all due respect to everyone here, they do not have the final say. They are not living in your shoes, you are. You are a catechumen, that means, you have a guardian angel, already assigned to you. Listen to your heart, as it is the direct connection to God and your guardian angel is your protector. He will be able to help you as long as you accept following the true path, in your heart. If you happen to make mistakes, in your choices, whatever they may be, it's also a form of teaching from God.

Just remind yourself, that the reason you came to Orthodoxy is due to that little feeling in your heart, that continued to grow. Something made you listen to it...to pursue that feeling. Well, it doesn't stop there. You still have to make it to baptism and that is where you will find the battle.

Ask yourself...do you believe in Orthodoxy? Do you believe that Orthodoxy is the only Truth of God? Can you live outside of the true faith of God? Will you settle for less?

Are you determined to be baptised in Orthodoxy? If you are, then God will guide you to the truth. All this jurisdictional talk is like a diversion. It's creating doubts in you. You are already fighting the spiritual battle. I can tell you some stories of my battle. It's a miracle, that I ever got baptised.

So, although others here may balk at my response, I'm saying it with meaningful intentions. It's not about jurisdictions, it's about the spiritual warefare that has CAUSED the disputes of jurisdictions.

There are many who wish to cause turmoil against the traditions of the holy fathers and they cause more confusion by dividing the spectrum. Everyone believes that they are with the true church. But, we all know the teachings of the holy fathers and the Seven Ecumenical Councils. There's only one truth. Question is, which hierarchs are preserving It?

To preserve Orthodoxy or not to preserve Orthodoxy. That is the guideline.

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Sabbas,

I appreciate joasia’s heartfelt response, but I unfortunately cannot agree with everything he says.

We certainly must pray though, but we pray for a pure heart in order that we might recognize the path of the righteous. We then choose our path and make our own choices little by little; so don’t ever think that because you prayed and asked God to guide you that the path you choose must be the right one. This is an utter delusion. We are mere humans and often don’t have the spiritual maturity to know the correct path all at once. Most often, we gradually learn the right path as we mature spiritually, heed our consciences, and struggle for it. The Apostles say, “make straight your path to the Lord”, which is something we struggle all our lives to do. And you will have a guardian angel when you are baptized with the baptism of the Church.

So, although others here may balk at my response, I'm saying it with meaningful intentions. It's not about jurisdictions, it's about the spiritual warefare that has CAUSED the disputes of jurisdictions.

He is right, this is not about “jurisdictions”. There is no such thing as "jurisdictions" in Orthodoxy. This is about the fact that there are many people today posing as “orthodox” bishops and priests, but because they preach heresy they are not. Run from them like you would run from a axe murderer in an alley.

The best I can do is STRONGLY urge you to read “Against False Union” and “the Touchstone.” As suggested by joseph b. I suppose I have slipped in all of these writings in my posts at one time or another, which is about the only way I figured people would read them.

http://www.zephyr.gr/stjohn/per-agai.htm

http://hocna.org/defense/touchstone.pdf

Everyone should read these.

[joasia]

OOD says:

so don’t ever think that because you prayed and asked God to guide you that the path you choose must be the right one. This is an utter delusion.

That's not what I meant. What I was trying to say was that we will choose a path of decision, which we will make with our hearts and it may turn out to be the wrong choice, but in the process, it will be a learning lesson by God. I have had many such lessons. I'm sure many, here, have experienced that too. It's part of being human. I followed my heart, but was wrong. It's as if God allows us to make some wrong decisions in order to realize what is right. That is the best way of teaching us ignorant creations. We seem to learn the hard way.

to know the correct path all at once. Most often, we gradually learn the right path as we mature spiritually, heed our consciences, and struggle for it.

But where does our conscience exist, but in our hearts? God is our conscience. He speaks through our hearts.

The Apostles say, “make straight your path to the Lord”, which is something we struggle all our lives to do. And you will have a guardian angel when you are baptized with the baptism of the Church.

When you get engaged, the woman is not your wife, but still promised to you, right? The intention is to complete the final spiritual union, right? Then why is it so different with guardian angels? They are elected to you in the promise that you will become baptised. A spiritual union has been established with God in becoming a catechumen, and if I'm not mistaken, an individual who then turns away from that committment that he has made and goes back to his former faith, will be worse off, spiritually, then someone who has never taken that step. It is a great responsibility. Why would God not assign protection for someone who has taken that step?

Part of the service is to blow three times to the West in order to renounce, reject, the devil. Once that is done...that individual will need spiritual protection from him. People tend to forget that satan is real. And therefore, God assigns an angel for protection and guidance.

Of course, this is the Greek tradition. I don't know if OOD follows these traditions.

This is what I was taught by the Greeks. If you'd like, I'll find backup for this. I just don't have at hand.

By the way...Joasia is Polish for Joanna. I thought I mentioned that way back.

[Stepanov]

I just finished reading The Touchstone.

It was an eye-opener, and that's putting it mildly.

Now, however, I've got a lot to consider and pray about.

What am I to do?

The only Orthodox Church within reasonable driving distance of me is GOA.

Do I stay there?

God help me.