A Question that caused a Crisis.

Helen · Post by **Helen** » Sun 23 March 2008 8:43 pm

Perhaps one

Young man,

Perhaps some of you

Who exactly are you referring to? Please be a little more direct - your comments are ambiguous.

Cyprian · Post by **Cyprian** » Mon 24 March 2008 3:00 am

Do you have anything about a person who becomes a catechumen but doesn't pursue Holy Baptism? What happens to that soul when he dies?

You have received the gift of Holy Baptism yourself, correct? So what concern is it of yours, with regards to speculating about other people's personal situation?

It is good to mind our own affairs, and not be busybodies, speaking things which we ought not.

Cyprian · Post by **Cyprian** » Mon 24 March 2008 3:36 am

"Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

We have an individual here who decries the idea of the unbaptized pontificating, and yet this hypocrite subjects this list (and other lists as well, I might add), to various "truisms" from the likes of:

Maya Angelou
Albert Einstein
Bernard Baruch
Friedrich Nietzsche
Bill Cosby
Sigmund Freud
Dionne Warwick
Henry A. Kissinger
Tony Robbins
Pablo Picasso
Muhammad Ali
Walt Disney ...and hundreds more.

Apparently the "pontifications" of these unbaptized are tolerable for the list when it suits her.

Then this individual parades around on different lists, proclaiming her confusion about where the true Church may be found, brandishing many as preachers of hatred and intolerance, pestering everyone to tell her where she can find the true Church.

Then she proclaims, "Babylon...is within us".

She might want to consider the possibility of simply speaking for herself.

Perhaps this individual would have more success in her quest at finding the true Church if she were to spend less time reading (and posting) quotes from assorted pagans, Jews, Mohammedans, heretics from every stripe, evolutionists, atheists, zionists, and communists, but rather spent her time more productively, meditating upon the sacred writings of the holy fathers.

ANGELA · Post by **ANGELA** » Mon 24 March 2008 4:24 am

Cyprian,

What are you talking about? I have no idea what your trying to say. Stop with the riddles, and say it clearly.

See if you can help the person who started this thread in the first place!

Angela

Helen · Post by **Helen** » Mon 24 March 2008 6:21 am

Ouch! Someone sure hit Cyprian's sore spot!

Anyway, Angela's right - let's get back to the topic at hand.

Ekaterina · Post by **Ekaterina** » Mon 24 March 2008 8:49 am

Angela:

Cyprian, a.k.a. Craig, was speaking about me... I am flattered that he has read so many of my postings. And, I do believe that Helen is correct in saying that I hit a raw nerve. Of,course about half of what he wrote I never said, but yes I have been pressing them to tell me where they feel that the true church is. Craig can't tell me since he has never committed to any church, deeming all to be beneath his notice.

What Craig fails to mention about the truisms that were posted is that there is a hefty dose of the church Fathers, who all seem to say....in slightly different words.... the same thingsas all those others that he enumerated.

As to the original question posed by Lenexa, while we may try to help him with this or that suggestion, I still feel he should get himself to a good priest, have a good deep confession and seek the healing of his soul.

The best that we can do for him is to pray for him. An akafist prayed in his name has more power than mere words.

Katya

Ekaterina · Post by **Ekaterina** » Mon 24 March 2008 10:41 am

Dear Eucherius:

I went back to re-look at you original question and I will try and give you my take on the problem. Although, having re-looked at you dilemma, I feel that my original recommendation stands. This truly something that you really need to discuss with a spiritual Father, it is not something that we lay people can necessarily help you with.

While God is omnipotent and omniscient, His ways are a mystery to us and it is sometimes hard to understand why one person receives a cure and another innocent life is either taken or is harmed in a manner incomprehensible to a normal person. The purpose behind allowing the harm is not always readily apparent. Humans through their actions have released evil in the world and it is only through pray and atonement that we can defeat that evil.

Not a day goes by that I do not read about some barbaric act that was done to some child by either a predatory human or by their own parents and my heart breaks and fractures every time, but we cannot blame God. God gave us free choice over ourselves. When humans choose to let evil into their hearts they shut door to God and allow evil to create havoc and all the other atrocities that we see in the world. I have often wondered why God has tolerated all that we have allowed to escape into the world. You tend to close your heart to everything and how much easier it is to think …. Well I can’t do anything…but that is not the way to go either. Consider that it is but a grain of sand that could set off an avalanche, so too I think with humans. If we but start with ourselves and work on our blights perhaps that will influence our neighbors which will influence their neighbors and so on. A sort of ripple effect. Yes, there are rocks in the way or other things that will seek to stop the effect, but as long as we continue to work on ourselves the ripples will continue to flow.

Instead of concentrating on our own flaws, as we have been instructed to do from the very beginning, we Orthodox are too busy fighting with each other. In a way, we are creating the rocks that stop the flow and allow evil to find its way into the world around us. I have seen where Orthodox women when get together and pray an Akafist for someone and God hears their prayer, miracles happen. But then the prayer of mothers is strongest of all. Who knows maybe if we all got together and all prayed as if in one voice God would help us fix ourselves and our broken world.

Eucherius, pray for God to give you the strength to fix yourself and for you to find the peace and answers you seek. If you do not have a spiritual father….and not all priests have the gift….I’m sure someone can suggest something based on where you live.

May God help you. Katya