Iconophili's Great Big Thread of Conspiracies!

[Ebor]

Let us compare that with 40,000,000 dead babies since Roe V. Wade. Lets compare that with 1 in 3 being minorities. Again, I had a qualifier in the original statement.

The essence of your issue is my credibility. You are so wonderful and provide so many meaningless references which say nothing against the assertion that in many respects, minorities and all people, had it better. Surely it was safer being a Fetus in 1890 America than in 1972, when one in three were aborted.

But hey - America is perfect, don't worry, be happy, don't fret.... the NWO has it all covered. And I did look in a masonic book once upon a time, and the Great Pyramid was there except instead of having 1776 in roman numerals, it had abacadaba which is some sort of demonic thing no doubt.
andy holland
sinner

And here you changed your post again. You introduced abortion. Noone in this thread has said that Abortion is a Good Thing. It feels like you are bringing out a hot topic to distract or change the subject.

Then you add remarks about me and my "many meaningless references ". I'm sorry that you find them meaningless. Life in a sweatshop for 15 hours aday was a fact of many imigrants'/minorities (as in all minorities not just African American) lives. So was 100 out of 1000 babies dying before the age of 1 year. That is not a good thing. I think that such references to what real human beings had to suffer to survive is meaningful. Thousands of such people against one Dr. Carver or Dr. Drew or one Josephine Baker (who moved to France for better living) does not make their achievements less, but it does not make the oppression of the thousands and thousands better either.

I do not think I am "so wonderful". But I do not find your ideas as to meanings as significant or convincing as they are to you. And making claims about the lives of real people based on hunches or gut reactions is perhaps not based on facts. I'm sorry that this is upsetting you.

Ebor

[Ebor]

Really, haven't you sealed a document? You fold it over, you put wax on it, and you place the seal in the wax. Perhaps the copies you saw don't contain the seal because they are not the documents of record? Maybe the envelope it was in was so sealed, and hence sealed? Maybe there is a sealed official copy, and a copy for publication? Do you think that might be possible?

You wrote that the Constitution had the Seal on it and to go to the Archives and check. Now you suggest other possibilities when given countering information.

Sorry, but I thought I had provided the newspaper reference website on the Holy Thorn that had a sound recording of the bloom on a link within that page. I really don't care - it has bloomed in accordance with the Orthodox calendar and fullfills wonderful prophecy to those who believe. Check out Dr. Layton's report in Henry VIII time.

The only thing you seem interested in is an ego battle constantly deflecting the issue. Be assured, you are far too smart for me. That is not a sarcastic remark. You are wonderful. Really, I mean it, I hope the best for you and yours - truly.

Well, it reads sarcastically. I'm sorry. I try to keep my ego out of discussions of History or ideas. Perhaps I don't always succeed. But when claims are made there should be proof. When terms are not defined, confusion can occur. When contrary evidence is offered, it should not be construed as a personal attack. I'm sorry that this

Can you get beyond your intrinsic rightness, and perhaps see reason why one might assert that America may be destroyed by her own lying wonders? How maybe one could see history, and the Bible as converging on a system of thought that may be intrinsically wrong? You know the fate of the midians if you are a Bible scholar.

I can see that you think certain things and see relations that are not obvious to others. You post things. People agree or disagree. I am no Bible Scholar, nor have claimed to be such, but I do know about the Midians.

But hey - the Great Seal isn't masonic - you have proved it. The name of the country is not E' Pluribus Unum - you have proved it. The Holy Thorn is not miraculous - you have proved it. Good, but I believe differentally because I find your "proofs" to be as faulty, if not more, than my poor assertions.

andy holland
sinner

You think one thing, other people think other things. Such is the way of things.

Ebor

[AndyHolland]

Let us compare that with 40,000,000 dead babies since Roe V. Wade. Lets compare that with 1 in 3 being minorities. Again, I had a qualifier in the original statement.

And here you changed your post again. You introduced abortion. Noone in this thread has said that Abortion is a Good Thing. It feels like you are bringing out a hot topic to distract or change the subject.

And the subject in my opinion is that America has reason for concern, and there was a comparative in the original statement.

Your issue is constantly my credibility, to which such a statement simply deflects the issue.

I am staying on track, where are you going? When two egoist's meet, its an eye for and eye. Here, have my eye - you are smarter - get over it!

Then you add remarks about me and my "many meaningless references ". I'm sorry that you find them meaningless. Life in a sweatshop for 15 hours aday was a fact of many imigrants'/minorities (as in all minorities not just African American) lives. So was 100 out of 1000 babies dying before the age of 1 year. That is not a good thing.

I agree, the original statement was comparative to be fair. So is a 1 in 3 shot of getting destroyed in 1972 a good thing?

But hey - you are right, the real issue is you are smart and I am stupid. I admit it, move on!

I think that such references to what real human beings had to suffer to survive is meaningful. Thousands of such people against one Dr. Carver or Dr. Drew or one Josephine Baker (who moved to France for better living) does not make their achievements less, but it does not make the oppression of the thousands and thousands better either.

We agree!

I do not think I am "so wonderful".

I do - you are wonderfully made by a wonderful God. You are wonderful. That is my opinion so there! You are humble which makes you even better.

But I do not find your ideas as to meanings as significant or convincing as they are to you. And making claims about the lives of real people based on hunches or gut reactions is perhaps not based on facts. I'm sorry that this is upsetting you.
Ebor

Really, what is upsetting is lack of communication. You are a very good fact checker, and I often assert based on old memories. I don't have the time to look these things up, I am busy.

But I do have a need, a responsibility, to warn others that perhaps the Bible and history are converging in an unfavorable direction for Americans, and this is worth further study - on their part as well as my own.

But really, if you don't accept anything I say as factual or credible, then good. Just stick to the issue, which is not me and not you. IMHO you really are wonderful, and have no need to strain at gnats - look for camels. You might find some reason for concern, for study, and see things from a different perspective.

As to proof about the name E' Pluribus Unum, the nation has been referred to as such many times in our history. There, is that better? Let's take a look at the forest, and not twigs!

andy holland
sinner

[AndyHolland]

Mr. Holland,

You are editing your posts and changing words and taking out phrases after people have quoted you and replied. Why?

You have changed "crucify me" to "ignore me" for example.

Why not start a new post to clarify something?

Are you expecting people to go back are read your previous posts when they are re-written and reply to the changes?

Ebor

edited to correct punctuation, add a phrase and add this line about what was edited.

A thousand apologies. I did not like my original tone, and wished to modify it so that it read correctly. My bad our posts crossed. I really did not like the original post and thought better of it hoping you would read the refined version which concentrated on issues that were relevant in my opinion.

andy holland
sinner

[Ebor]

You feel called to warn. Have you told your priest that? How do you know whether it is a call from God or not?

I'm sorry that this has lead to ascerbic words. Perhaps it would be best to just say that there is disagreement. I doubt that there is anything to be gained.

Ebor

[AndyHolland]

Dear Ebor,

For sake of communication, consider some questions.

1. Is it reasonable that one can see a name attached to the nation such as E' Pluribus Unum from history?

   a. Are treaties Constitutional documents?
   b. Is the Great Seal attached to treaties historically?
   c. Has E'Pluribus Unum been used to describe America in the past?
   d. Is the mystery of Babylon, mother of harlots, unity and the imagination to do anything as described in Genesis 11:1-9?
   e. Is modern American optimism founded on our unity?

2. Is it reasonable that one might have cause for concern about the secular nature, makeup and history of a nation? If not, why not?

andy holland
sinner

[AndyHolland]

You feel called to warn. Have you told your priest that? How do you know whether it is a call from God or not?

I'm sorry that this has lead to ascerbic words. Perhaps it would be best to just say that there is disagreement. I doubt that there is anything to be gained.

Ebor

Are you Orthodox?

I didn't say I felt called, I said I felt I had a responsibility to point out some things.

But I do have a need, a responsibility, to warn others that perhaps the Bible and history are converging in an unfavorable direction for Americans, and this is worth further study - on their part as well as my own.

Are you fairly characterizing what I said? If one sees a possible threat, like the strong possibility of an oncoming tidal wave, shouldn't one say so? Did you notice the word "perhaps"? Did you notice, "worth further study"? Are you being honest when you say: "How do you know whether it is a call from God or not?" when I do not speak of "call" or "God" in the sentences?

Honestly, my responsibility seems purely moral and normal and not unusual or more than natural or reasonable. I had no other thought in mind when I wrote that - honestly.

You seem fixated on mischaracterizing what is said. On one hand, you demand rigorous scholarship, on the other, you feel free to completely mischaracterize what someone else writes!

Does this go to the heart of the ability to communicate? Do you see why I may be frustrated in engaging you? Certainly, my generalizations and assertions are disturbing to you, and I am beginning to see how I err greatly in not supporting statements. However, is it worth anyone's time when such support will be twisted?

andy holland
sinner