Silverware?

[Justin Kissel]

Forgive me if I ruined anyones fun, I don't mean to. Guess I'm just sensitive.

[Mor Ephrem]

Personally, I find the humor to be a bit much at this point, Mor. Perhaps the comics of the fourth century also made fun of Christians for dividing their entire Church over one letter (iota), but obviously that would have been an unfair jab. I know you don't mean anything offensive, but it's starting to get there (for this sensitive, defensive, traditionalist anyway).

Dear Justin,

In the thread about the "red hammer" phenomenon, I said I was abnormal because I didn't have that in mind, and you said something to the effect of "Maybe it doesn't work on monophysite robots". Now I didn't take that as anything but a joke; in fact, I expect it from people like you every so often. So, even when you apologised*, I didn't really care because I wasn't offended, but accepted it anyway.

I think you've had enough online dealings with me to know that I try my best not to be rude, but to be respectful of others, even when I think they are mistaken; I know that I fail, but I try. You yourself acknowledge that you know I don't mean any offence, and I take you at your word (unless you tell me it is merely a nice thing to say and nothing more). So why not take my joke for what it is, a lighthearted jab (kinda like Anastasios' Ecumenism pledge), and certainly not as indicative of my true feelings regarding Eastern Orthodox traditionalists who, though I have my disagreements with them, I respect?

But while you didn't originally feel anything was wrong in calling me a "monophysite robot", you do take offence at my lighthearted joke, and I presume this is in part because this time the joke is not on the heretics, the schismatics, or the other "rabble", but on the "true Orthodox". Although I didn't intend to "teach" anything, and I'm not really sorry for the joke since I know I didn't mean it seriously and was pretty sure people would understand me, perhaps now you have some idea how it is to be on the opposite end of these things.

I am sorry if I have offended you or the others inadvertently.

*One thing I've noticed about you (among other things) is that you often say something, and almost immediately afterwards post a note about how sorry you are for having said it. I must ask why it is that, when you are tempted to answer a certain way, you don't re-read what you wrote, or simply leave the situation and come back when you've cooled off? Why, instead, do you post something, and then post an apology? You come off sometimes as if you want to make a show of your repentance and humility. It would be much better for you if you kept your apology simple so that you don't draw unnecessary attention to yourself and possibly fuel your pride by doing so. Indeed, the best thing to do would be to take advantage of the nature of this medium, and read over your post a few times before submitting it; unlike personal conversations, internet conversations allow us the luxury of choosing what we want to say and editing ourselves as necessary: we should take advantage of this and be as mindful as possible of what we say.

[Justin Kissel]

The monophysite robot thing was obviously a continuation of the joke over at Nicholas' blog. Obviously you didn't think it was funny, and after having thought about it I agreed, it was not something to be joked about. I guess the reason I reacted the way I did is the light hearted jab continued for days and days. You didn't like my robot comment; with good reason. However, I would ask the same standard to be applied in reverse. Their is a fine line between humor and offensiveness... the longer humor goes on, the more possibility there might be of someone getting offended. I suppose a humble man wouldn't feel offended, but speaking for myself I was. I wasn't offended deeply.. I know you are a sincere and respecting individual. I just think this is a case where a good thing was taken a little to far. Sort of like a song on the radio that they keep playing over and over and after a while you just get sick of it, no matter how good it is. As to why I almost always post apologies... well after the things that happened a few months ago, I have committed to not deleting posts, and indeed not even editing them if at all possible. So I'm left either leaving the post alone with no clarification, or to post a follow up. As my language normally comes off in a more zealous or bold manner than what I really think or believe, I often find myself posting followups clarifications. This is true not just of things I am later sorry for having said, but also in theological posts generally. (E.g., it seems like every time I try to write something about Cyprianism or ROAC it comes off sounding more moderate and less conservative than I mean it to; in some threads half my posts are clarifications of other posts that people misunderstood entirely) I do thank you for your pointing this out about me, though, it is indeed something that I need to work on

[Joe Zollars]

talk of monophysitism, robotics, indian eating habits, etc. and noone knows how one is to counta spork? I mean is it a fork, is it a spoon, or have I been spending too much time in cafaterias?

Joe Zollars

[Mor Ephrem]

I guess the reason I reacted the way I did is the light hearted jab continued for days and days. You didn't like my robot comment; with good reason. However, I would ask the same standard to be applied in reverse. Their is a fine line between humor and offensiveness... the longer humor goes on, the more possibility there might be of someone getting offended. I suppose a humble man wouldn't feel offended, but speaking for myself I was.

Dear Justin,

To be honest with you, I don't know what you are talking about.

Other than the original post, which contained no jab, I've posted thrice on this thread (with this being the fourth). My second post explained the reason why I asked, and added a one liner; this was done when the joke was already spoiled (by the references to my trip to Jordanville and the monastic custom of not using forks), and so I didn't think anyone would think it was funny afterwards anyway--that post was to explain why I started the thread. The third post, in response to Mary, I wrote because I found it funny that someone else wasn't a fork person, and so it was an opening for the type of joke that I wanted to make in the first place, and that apparently had offended you. My last post was in response to you.

So I am not sure how it is you think I carried the joke too far. I'm willing to say that I offered a couple of jokes to this thread, even though I would consider it more like one and a third. So how did I carry the joke too far in this? Or is the mere existence of the thread over the course of this past week what bothers you? I can't imagine so, since it didn't bother you before you knew my reasoning for it. I honestly don't know what you mean by the above.

talk of monophysitism, robotics, indian eating habits, etc. and noone knows how one is to counta spork? I mean is it a fork, is it a spoon, or have I been spending too much time in cafaterias?

Joe, for every spork you turn in to the Indian Orthodox Church, I will give you a partial indulgence of three years, the usual conditions being fulfilled.

[Joe Zollars]

If I do this every day for a month, can I get a plenary indulgenge?

Joe Zollars

[away]

I am of the opinion that jokes about religion, any religion, are one of the little things that we let go of, and so then we end up doing the bigger things.

Does anyone else agree with me? Its like, in our culture, the one thing you can always do at any time regarding any subject, is make a joke about it. But I think that is missing the mark.

I have noticed a lot of joking on this site and some other strange things that might not seem like much, but when you think about it, its not just that some people might get offended, its more like, if we are capable of joking about Holy things, then we are far more likely to get offended by a jab, or post something stupid in the grip of a passion and later reject it.

I hope no one takes this badly, its just a suggestion, something you might want to look at. I know Im new, but, forgive me, it was on my mind.