There are Pre-schism western rites that are still performed today, such as The Mozarabic-Visigothic. Could these not be "adjusted?'
The arguments in favor of Western Rites that I have heard are to make the liturgy more comfortable for converts. My experience has been that it is not the Divine Liturgy that is a difficulty but rather, the use of languages like Slavonic or Ancient Greek (rather than native languages.)
Acutally, the Mozarabic rite suffered from later additions that make it no longer original. Additionnally, a rite is not only the liturgy (mass), but also the other services, the way of singing, the liturgical ornaments, the gestures etc. I doubt it is possible to find the original things of these Western Rite. Moreover, who would need this since they haven't been used for century and are forgotten by any inquirer to orthdoxy. They would seem as exotic as byzantine rite. The difficulty is like Lydia stressed the celbration in missionary context in non native languages, which is the best way not to be missionary. All the missionaries translated in what was the common language of their time and place : Saint Etienne of Perm in Zyriane for the Zyrianes, Romanian switched to Romanian in the 18th century, Arabs abandonned Greek for Arab etc.
There are Pre-schism western rites that are still performed today, such as The Mozarabic-Visigothic. Could these not be "adjusted?'
The arguments in favor of Western Rites that I have heard are to make the liturgy more comfortable for converts. My experience has been that it is not the Divine Liturgy that is a difficulty but rather, the use of languages like Slavonic or Ancient Greek (rather than native languages.)
Acutally, the Mozarabic rite suffered from later additions that make it no longer original. Additionnally, a rite is not only the liturgy (mass), but also the other services, the way of singing, the liturgical ornaments, the gestures etc. I doubt it is possible to find the original things of these Western Rite. Moreover, who would need this since they haven't been used for century and are forgotten by any inquirer to orthdoxy. They would seem as exotic as byzantine rite. The difficulty is like Lydia stressed the celbration in missionary context in non native languages, which is the best way not to be missionary. All the missionaries translated in what was the common language of their time and place : Saint Etienne of Perm in Zyriane for the Zyrianes, Romanian switched to Romanian in the 18th century, Arabs abandonned Greek for Arab etc.
Antiochian parishes use liturgical Arabic, which is not spoken today.
Liturgical Greek is also not spoken today, so some of the Divine Liturgy in Greek is not understandable to native Greek peoples.
Church Slavonic is also not modern day Russian.
The older form of English employed by HOCNA (so called King James English) is not consistent. This was noticeable in their book of Psalms and in their Divine Liturgy, where there are many errors.
Antiochian parishes use liturgical Arabic, which is not spoken today.
Liturgical Greek is also not spoken today, so some of the Divine Liturgy in Greek is not understandable to native Greek peoples.
Church Slavonic is also not modern day Russian.
The older form of English employed by HOCNA (so called King James English) is not consistent. This was noticeable in their book of Psalms and in their Divine Liturgy, where there are many errors.
So, nobody understands anything. Right.
English translations are inconsistent and full of errors.Right.
How would you know if nobody understands anything, right?
Seriously though...Let's just all be overwhelved by the exotic pageantry and forget about what's being said.
No wonder there are so few converts to True Orthodoxy. But I guess that means more for us! Yea!
Antiochian parishes use liturgical Arabic, which is not spoken today.
Liturgical Greek is also not spoken today, so some of the Divine Liturgy in Greek is not understandable to native Greek peoples.
Church Slavonic is also not modern day Russian.
The older form of English employed by HOCNA (so called King James English) is not consistent. This was noticeable in their book of Psalms and in their Divine Liturgy, where there are many errors.
So, nobody understands anything. Right.
English translations are inconsistent and full of errors.Right.
How would you know if nobody understands anything, right?
Seriously though...Let's just all be overwhelved by the exotic pageantry and forget about what's being said.
No wonder there are so few converts to True Orthodoxy. But I guess that means more for us! Yea!
Do you come from a Protestant background or Roman Catholic background? I come from a traditionalist Catholic background, hence the love of liturgical language and the hatred of liturgical innovation.
Antiochian parishes use liturgical Arabic, which is not spoken today.
Liturgical Greek is also not spoken today, so some of the Divine Liturgy in Greek is not understandable to native Greek peoples.
Church Slavonic is also not modern day Russian.
The older form of English employed by HOCNA (so called King James English) is not consistent. This was noticeable in their book of Psalms and in their Divine Liturgy, where there are many errors.
So, nobody understands anything. Right.
English translations are inconsistent and full of errors.Right.
How would you know if nobody understands anything, right?
Seriously though...Let's just all be overwhelved by the exotic pageantry and forget about what's being said.
No wonder there are so few converts to True Orthodoxy. But I guess that means more for us! Yea!
Do you come from a Protestant background or Roman Catholic background? I come from a traditionalist Catholic background, hence the love of liturgical language and the hatred of liturgical innovation.
I was baptized into The Russian Orthodox Church when I was 8 days old. Before that, I can't remember
I have a question for you Philaret: When was the first time you attended an Orthodox Liturgy? Were you still a Roman Catholic?
Yep. A New Calendar GREEK Parish that used about 70% english, 30% GREEK and Arabic Slavonic and Romanian. Very multi-ethnic with a priest who had lived in GREECE 20 years, but was from California. I think the Liturgy should be in the people's language, but I just don't think it should be "vulgar" as in common or profane language. Our every day english is literally "profane" as in "outside the temple", which is what profane means. I just think Liturgies should have Liturgical languages.
