Coming soon - reunion of ROCOR with the Church of Russia

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Reader Mark
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Post by Reader Mark »

We all desire the one true Church, but only under the right circumstances.How soon do we forget about the illegal and violent seizing by the MP in the Holy Land, of the ROCOR monestary and convent in Hebron. And of the recent affairs in Bari,Italy also involving property seized from ROCOR by the MP. It is all happening too suddenly. The unification process needs to happen slowly and properly in stead of rushing into things. His Grace Bishop KYRYLL, of whom I have the highest esteem, in the course of two years has gone from completely disregarding hurried reunification with the MP TO embracing the possibility.

It is important to ask ourselves why the sudden change of heart, Why is the "democratic" president of Russia pushing for dialogue to begin. Its not the dialogue that I fear, it it after all the normal course of action since the Soviet regime and threat has passed, but it is the hurried attitude that the once minority group seeking reunification has burst out on the scene, becoming the majority through opportunistic tactics(the options for other canonical jurisdictions are few). There are cleregymen who seek to project their views on reunificationon to those without proper theological training, like myself seeking to shame them into submission . They are the ones who mock the tentative, and those who seek to make the best decision, it is after all our SOULS who are speaking of.

The reason for this discord does fall squarely on the shoulders of internet gossip sites, although this site does not fall unto that heading since most of the participants are reasonable and respectful. The blame fall on the shoulders of those who did not discipline those bishops who chose to do things their way ie participating in ecumenical and unlawful dialogue with MP authorities in the last decade of the 20th century. It falls on the shoulders of those bishops that have a secret agenda seeking power and dominence instead of guiding the flock and monesticism. It falls on the shoulders of those who formed a catacomb group in Russia only to shun the group as a parent shuns its child causing a schism. It falls on the shoulders of those who were so fanatical that they used this incident to form another splinter group, a splinter of a splinter. The flock is scandalized, the flock is weary, the flock has lost its focus, the flock has lost confidence in some aspects of its leadership starting fro mthe parish priest and up,

The treasure of Orthodoxy is a pricelss pearl, it is not to be bartered or sold, it is not to be given to the dogs. The goal of a unified Russian Orthodox Church is the goal, but only done the right way, uncompromised, straight and true. We should not relent to what is convienent and easy and within our grasp, by compromising the Faith handed down to us 2000 years ago. We should not spit on what makes us Orthodox, right believing, unwavering,strong. Pray that our Hierarchs are guided to make well thought out canonicaly founded decisions, instead of jumping in for nostalgic and ethnic banter.

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ania
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Post by ania »

Just wanted to say once again that from the looks of things, the upcoming meeting in December is only talks, the only outcome might be that there will be full Eucheristic Communion between the MP & ROCOR, not anything else. I spoke to a few people (clergy) this past weekend & yesterday, and no-one is looking to jump into anything, well, besides Bsp. Mark. Heck, they might even only go so far as to say that laity may commune at either church, if they go anywhere. My projection is that sometime this year/next year they'll have full Communion, and in perhaps 5-8 years, they'll start talking seriously about administrative unity. Please pray for Met. Lavr & the rest of the Synod so that they make the right decisions.
Also, on a side note, the people willing to talk to the MP was never in the minority. Before now, well, before the fall of communism & reforms in the MP, there was no reason to change the course of the church. The major concern was preserving Orthodoxy for the eventual reunion with the Russian Church. Now the course has altered. This is a completely new & different situation which has just brought out the people who have been sitting & silently watching for a long time now. Doesn't mean they weren't there. Though I remember my dad & grandad both being branded "KGB agents" & "Spies"(my family had a rather relaxed veiw toward the MP, and because my dad went on tour a few times with a choir to Russia before the fall of communism), etc by people who thought that anything outta Russia at the time of Communism was the ultimate of all evil, our family never lacked for people who saw church events just as we did.
Ania

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Seraphim Reeves
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Post by Seraphim Reeves »

Ania,

Just wanted to say once again that from the looks of things, the upcoming meeting in December is only talks, the only outcome might be that there will be full Eucheristic Communion between the MP & ROCOR, not anything else.

That would seem to be the "problem" as far as most people are concerned (at least those who have a problem with the MP.)

In a way, it's something of a moot point - the ROCOR by it's own admission is really already "in communion" with the MP, if indirectly - since Serbia and the JP are definatly "in communion" with the MP, it's nonsensical to say from ROCOR's present p.o.v. that she and the MP are not parts of the same "church." This is of course, overlooking the fact that these loud claims to "unbroken relations" with the JP and Serbia are highly questionable (I'd say untrue, particularly given Patriarch Pavel's statements to the MP not too long ago on ROCOR's status). However, what matters I suppose is not so much the "reality" of these relations, so much as that this is the official line/desire of ROCOR.

All any official "concelebrations" or "communion" will do, is make this material truth a very visible reality. Some people do not react unless they are sharply prodded.

Seraphim

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UNTRUSTWORTHY PRONOUNCEMENTS

Post by Lounger »

An article entitled, "Is the Wind Returning to Its Circuits?"[ 1] appeared in the Russian-language periodical, Pravoslavnaya Rus (Nov. 1/14, 1998). One of the major subjects of the article was the Orthodox Church in Georgia, and it began as follows:

Extraordinary events are taking place in our times. In the Orthodox Churches recently liberated from the wardship of Communism, there has begun a gradual restoration of Orthodox doctrine in all its purity. Despite the long years of Communist oppression in Russia, the overwhelming number of the churchly-minded laymen reject with indignation the falsely-called ecumenism which recognizes the heretical congregations as Christian Churches.

The editors point out that the Moscow Patriarchate, even against its will, is being forced by the anti-ecumenical mood of its flock to re-evaluate its relationship with the World Council of Churches. The authors feel that "the flock of the Orthodox Churches of the East to a significant degree share the attitude of the churchly people of Russia." Thereupon follows a general discussion of the current relations of various of these churches with the WCC: the Serbian, Bulgarian, and Georgian Orthodox Churches, etc.

Much space is devoted to the ecclesiastical developments in Georgia of the past year. Mention is made that the official Georgian Orthodox Church was compelled to withdraw from the World Council of Churches at the insistence of its more zealous members. Attention is given to the recent official pronouncement by the Georgian Orthodox Church that many of the ecumenical resolutions of the WCC (which the Georgian Patriarchate had approved at the time) are now "unacceptable."[ 2] Credit is given to the State Church of Georgia for having taken these "steps in the direction of the Orthodoxy of the Holy Fathers, to which Pravoslavnaya Rus has constantly called upon people to return," yet it is also shown that once again this decision too was reached under pressure from the zealous monastics.

While discussing the Georgian Orthodox Church, the editors also inform their readers that: "Unfortunately, the Georgian monastics who had seceded from Patriarch Ilia, have joined the parasynogogue formed by former clergy of the ROCA, the so-called Bostonians. This sad fact reminds us that the danger of falling into spiritual calamity lies in wait for Christians even on the right path."

The editors correctly state that "eucharistic unity is impossible without doctrinal unity," and then conclude by offering their readers the following reassurance:

Therefore the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad does not have eucharistic communion with those who permit persons who have not repented of their errors against the doctrine of the Church to join in common prayer: whether they be called ecumenists, Monophysites, or those, who on various ëplausibleí pretexts, have for many years disavowed her glory ? the Holy New Martyrs.
This last paragraph is very important and merits special attention. The only problem with this commendable statement is: is it true?

In its January-April, 1987 issue, Church Life, a ROCOR periodical, published the Decisions of the Synod of Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia. Among its other deliberations, the ROCOR bishops officially commended Archpriest Alexander Lebedev for his "written defenses of the position of the Russian Church Outside Russia in connection with the Boston schism." Completely contrary to what Pravoslavnaya Rus asserts in its above-mentioned 1998 issue, the letters of Fr. Alexander Lebedev? officially and synodically commended by the ROCOR bishops ?state that it is permitted to the ROCOR clergy to give communion to members of new calendar and ecumenistic jurisdictions!

Which of these two pronouncements is true?

Unfortunately, this is not the only example of the ROCORís theological "double-speak."

After the repose of Metropolitan Philaret, the ROCOR issued many false communiques concerning the large exodus of clergy and laypeople from its ranks in 1986. And this, in fact, raises the question: Are the communiques and statements of the ROCOR hierarchy really trustworthy?

A look at some examples of these statements will give us the answer.

In 1983, the ROCOR bishops published the anathema against Ecumenism, specifically against those who "advocate, disseminate, or defend their new heresy of Ecumenism." But in 1986, an article published in Orthodox America (Oct., 1986) presented a different story.

In the fall of 1986, a clergy conference of the Mid-West Diocese of the Russian Church Abroad took place at the parish of St. John Chrysostom in St. Louis, Missouri. The discussions were presided over by Bishop Alypy of Cleveland. A report of this meeting was published in the above-mentioned issue of Orthodox America, in which the following comments were recorded:

With the Icon [of the Mother of God of Kursk] at his side, we also received instruction from our Archpastor, Bishop Alypy, who re-assured us that in spite of all the difficulties occurring throughout world-wide Orthodoxy, our Synod of Bishops of the Russian Church Abroad does not judge any other jurisdiction as being . . . . in heresy [emphasis ours] .
As we see, essentially and in a very basic matter, Bishop Alypyís comments effectively contradicted the text of the Synodís Anathema of 1983, which was directed specifically against those who are involved in Ecumenism. Further, it is significant that these comments were not simply the opinion of one bishop. In the presence of clergymen, and in the name of the entire hierarchy of the Russian Synod, a public statement was made that the "Synod of Bishops of the Russian Church Abroad" does not consider "any other jurisdiction" ? i.e., the ecumenist "Orthodox" members of the World Council of Churches ? to be in heresy.

Later, in 1991, Fr. Seraphim Johnson, a priest who left the ROCOR almost a year after the clergy that left in 1986, wrote the following observations to a layman.

Initially they [ROCOR] denied that any contacts with ecumenical Orthodox were taking place. Then they admitted that they were in communion with a member-Church in the World Council of Churches (the Serbian Patriarchate), but claimed that this didnít matter because they didnít serve with the Serbian Church very often anyway. Then they published a letter by Fr. Alexander Lebedev in Orthodox Life in which he claimed that the ROCOR recognized the validity of all the other Orthodox jurisdictions, whatever their involvement in Ecumenism. (This in fact contradicted the ROCORís earlier practice of accepting clergy from those churches without canonical releases on grounds of the heretical positions of those churches.) Metropolitan Vitaly then published his Nativity Encyclical in which he denied that the condemnation of Ecumenism applied outside the ROCOR at all, stated that the ROCOR did not serve with ecumenical Orthodox, and added that when it did, it was by economy. Of course, this use of economy would justify serving with Roman Catholics and Protestants, which is in fact what happened when a joint ROCOR-Episcopalian wedding was held in the St. John the Baptist Church in Washington, D.C. ? there was no official reaction to this wedding by any ROCOR hierarch. [ See the complete text of this letter. ] [ 3]
In February of 1995, Bishop Valentine (of the Free Russian Orthodox Church) wrote the following in a Lenten encyclical to his flock in Russia:

. . .the Chancellery of the Synod of the ROCA is only witnessing. . .to a deep crisis in the administration of the ROCA itself, when the President of the Hierarchical Synod, Metropolitan Vitaly, is not able to control the resolutions and ukazes issuing from the Chancellery of the Synod. It is impossible to take the documents signed by Vladyka Metropolitan Vitaly seriously when in the course of less than a year their meaning has several times changed to the complete opposite. [ 4]
In a footnote, it is noted that Bishop Valentine was no doubt referring to the incident

when Archbishop Anthony of Los Angeles declared that in its session of February 21-24, the Hierarchical Synod had banned both Archbishop Lazarus and Bishop Valentine from serving at the same time that Metropolitan Vitaly was writing to Bishop Valentine that he was "in no wise banned from serving" ( Suzdalískii Palomnik , 21, 1995, pp. 28-29).
Then, in 1994, an Epistle of the Council of ROCOR Bishops stated clearly, "The time has come to seek living links with all parts of the Russian Orthodox Church, separated due to historical circumstances. [emphasis added]." (So, the ROCORís Archbishop Mark of Germany obviously was not exaggerating when he insisted that he had received a blessing from the Council of Bishops to start his negotiations with the ecumenistic hierarchy of the Moscow Patriarchate.)

But recently, in the Epistle of the Council of ROCOR Bishops of May, 1998, the following bald-faced and completely untrue statement was made: "The Council of Bishops finds it necessary to make clear that our Church has never held any negotiations concerning union with the Moscow Patriarchate"! [emphasis added].

Then, a little later, the bulletin Church News (June-July, 1998) published an article entitled, "A Few Words About the ëNon-Existentí Negotiations of the ROCOR with the Moscow Patriarchate," with the following information:

The magazine Vozvrashcheniye (Return), published in St. Petersburg, in its issue #11 published an excellently documented article entitled "Berlin Initiative" which is part of an interview given by telephone [Ed.: after the above-mentioned meeting of the ROCOR bishops in May of 1998] to the newspaper Radonezh by Archbishops Mark (ROCOR) and Theophan (Moscow Patriarchate).

Archbishop Theophan declared: "First of all, from the very start we agreed that we are one Church, and not two, or even two confessions. This was Vladyka Markís idea ? to speak of one Church and two dioceses, which, truly, are in a rather delicate situation. . . In general, I see no legal obstacles [i.e., to collaboration, Ed .]. The only problem is the manner of entrance of the Church Abroad into the Moscow Patriarchate, maybe some sort of reunion, I donít know what to call it. I am afraid to make definitions, which might frighten someone . . . All of it might be decided in one day [Emphasis by Church News ] After our dialogues, I do not see what can seriously separate us. Of course, one can invent anything, but there are no serious obstacles for reunion. . ."

Such is the authoritative opinion of a hierarch of the Moscow Patriarchate, who held negotiations with a representative of the ROCOR, Archbishop Mark.

Archbishop Mark, in turn, made the following statement: "In some questions we could rather quickly come to a common denominator, and in others problems arose, which we did not anticipate. . . Therefore, we have to strive to transfer the discussion onto Russian soil [Emphasis by Church News ]. The idea of such discussion was born in our diocese, but at some time we received a blessing from the Council of Bishops of our Church" [Emphasis by Church News ]. Finally, in an interview published in the Russian bulletin Vertograd-Inform (July, 1998), Metropolitan Vitaly, the president of the ROCOR, stated that, in speaking to Archbishop Mark about the latterís negotiations with the ecumenistic Moscow Patriarchate, he told Archbishop Mark, "You have erected a huge enterprise and we cannot destroy it. The further it goes ? the more difficult it will be" [emphasis added].

Where is the truth in all these self-contradictory pronouncements?

As Metropolitan Vitaly stated in the above-mentioned interview: "Among the [ROCOR] clergy there is a lack of understanding, a lack of knowledge."

Given these theological zig-zags, should this "lack of understanding and knowledge" among the ROCOR clergy (and laity) surprise anyone?

[ 1] Cf. Ecclesiastes 1:6 ó ìThe wind goes round and round, and the wind returns to its circuits.î

[ 2] See ìAn Unacceptable Resolution,î issued recently by the clergy of the Orthodox Church in Georgia (i.e. of the True Orthodox Church) against the above-mentioned official pronouncement of the Georgian Patriarchate.

[ 3] Editorsís Note: Actually, there was an official reaction from Bishop Hilarion, the Assistant Secretary of the Synod of Bishops of the ROCOR. In a letter to Matushka Anastasia Schatilova (2/15 October, 1988), Bishop Hilarion ordered her to print a retraction of her report of this wedding, and he affirmed that a ìthorough investigationî had demonstrated that her report did ìnot correspond to reality.î However, a video-tape of the wedding showed clearly that the service had indeed taken place as she reported it.

[4] Quoted in The Free Russian Orthodox Church: A Short History (1982-1998), by Vladimir Moss, p. 42.

Gregory2

Post by Gregory2 »

I think restoration of full communion between ROCOR and the MP/OCA is a wonderful thing. For those of us who have been praying for it for a while now, why should we be upset if it actually occurs??? On the contrary, we should be thankful. I think there's a lot to be learned on both sides -- for those of us who never lived under communism, we can't (and we aren't supposed to) judge those who did. And the treasures of ROCOR, from the Jordanville monastery to the cathedral in San Francisco to St. John Maximovitch, are beyond wonderful. But now that the Russian Orthodox Church inside Russia can communicate with the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, I would think that it would be going against Christ's commandments to continue to be divided!

Maybe restoration of full communion is God's answer to our prayers????

Daniel
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What about the Catacomb Church?

Post by Daniel »

I haven't heard anything about the Catacomb Church mentioned in discussions about the 'reconciliation' between ROCOR and the MP. Does anyone have any idea were they may fit in to all this?

mwoerl

rocor/mp union & sobor of 1971

Post by mwoerl »

i recently ran across the decision of the rocor sobor of 1971 "concerning the election of pimen izvekov" (in the 50th anniversary album of the church abroad, published with the blessing of the hierarchical sobor of the russian church abroad). i did not recall ever having read this decision, so i did, and was somewhat shocked to see that, besides the usual "we don't recognize the election," that the sobor stated that since the civil authorities were responsible for the "election" of pimen izvekov (as patriarch of the mp in 1970), that he violated such and such a canon (i forget which one now-i can post the quote later), and the penalty for violation of this canon is that pimen izvekov is not only deposed, but also excommunicated, AS ARE ALL IN COMMUNION WITH HIM. the decision went on to quote bishop nikodim milasch, a famous expert and commentator on the canons, as to why the penalties for violating that particular canon were so drastic, and also went on to say that references to the turkish sultans appointing patriarchs of constantinople do not mitigate this instance, as previous violations of regulations do not excuse new violations-or something to that effect.
at any rate, at least for the rocor sobor of bishops and rocor members, is this not "the smoking gun" that has been denied existence on so many occasions? "the church abroad has never officially stated that the mp does not have grace..." yet, how can an ecclesiastical structure with a deposed and excommunicated head, having as members those in communion with that head who are also excommunicated, have grace?
as patriarch alexey II was a bishop at that time, he would be, simply according to this decision, for the rocor sobor, an excommunicated bishop, and nothing more. and, "those in communion with him" certainly has wide-ranging ramifications....
unless, of course this decision has been rescinded; if it has, i am not aware of it. or is there some sort of explanation that we should not be at all concerned about this decision of the 1971 sobor, or that it does not mean what it so clearly says, or that it is meaningless now...perhaps because archbishop nikon told someone he did not agree with it, or because the sobor had no authority to make such a decision, or because "things have changed in russia," or becuase the sobor of bishops of the church abroad made and promulgated meaningless decisions, or ????
michael woerl

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